Computer Advice

I'm looking at new systems to replace my pathetically old HP (the one with a Pentium 2 :-? ). The best one I can see so far is this one from Gateway:

Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.0GHz with 512K L2 Advanced Transfer Cache

Memory: 256MB DDR SDRAM

Hard Drive: 80GB UATA100 7200RPM Hard Drive

Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44MB diskette drive

CD-ROM or DVD: 40x/12x/48x CDRW

Case: NEW Gateway Mid-Tower Case

Certification: Energy Star Compliant

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition

Application Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 - Including Microsoft® Word and Encarta

AntiVirus Software: Norton AntiVirus 90 day Introductory Offer

Monitor: VX730 17" Color Monitor (16.0" viewable)

Video: Intel® Extreme Graphics with up to 64MB Dynamic Video Memory

Keyboard: Multi-function Keyboard

Mouse: Logitech USB Optical Wheel Mouse and Gateway mouse pad

Sound System: Integrated Stereo Audio

Speakers: Boston Acoustics® BA745 Speakers with Subwoofer

Expansion Slots: 3 PCI and 1 AGP

External Ports: (6) USB (2 in front and 4 in back are version 2.0) Parallel, Serial and (2) PS/2

Controller: Integrated Ultra ATA Controller

Modem: 56K PCI Voice Modem

High-Speed Internet Service: Not Selected

Network Adapter: Integrated 10/100 Ethernet

Internet Service Provider: One year America Online® Internet Access OR 6-Months of MSN Internet Access (creation of new account required for AOL/MSN offers)

Limited Warranty Program: 1 Year Limited Parts / Labor / Support


This one seems almost too good to be true. I went in to the store and saw the box - it's got huge empty spaces for adding stuff later, including things like DVD (which I can't afford at the moment)... and every part is replaceable. Yes, it does have an AGP slot (damn those $700 computer for having no possibility for upgrading the video! Damn theeeeeem)

The final price comes out to about $1,180, with shipping and tax. So what do you all think? Will this be able to play new games for a while yet?

 

Milo just gave me some advice on this in the thread called "Calis does the upgrade thing." Check it out for his spec, which he spent about $1k on

 

The deal you lined out looks good except for the video card. Since this is probably going to be the most expensive part in a gaming system, the deal really isn't as good as it seems. Throw in Gateway's sketchy customer support record (Check out their 3.87/10 rating at Reseller Ratings), and their short warranty...

If you have your heart set on buying a pre-built computer, check out Dell. They have decent stuff for the price and the warranty is good. Another good one is Micron Computers. Both Dell (7.22/10) and Micron (8.05/10) have much better records of customer satisfaction according to Reseller Ratings.

If I were you, I'd build my own computer. You get to cherry pick components and set it up how you want it right from the start. This isn't for everyone, but it really isn't all that hard. Especially when you have so many internet resources to help you out.

But either way... In my opinion, the system you outlined above has two major flaws. The graphics card is crappy and it's a Gateway.

 

Gateway showed how good they are in Australia by pulling out completely. You can't even find that damn cow pattern logo type thing of theirs anymore, except maybe in Telstra stores. Telstra being the major telco here, and looking to expand their monopoly in other areas of business.

 

What's up with this Intel Extreme Graphics card thing? I've never seen it sold in stores. I gather from its "up to" phrase that it shares memory with the computer though. Etalis, that means that you get to share a quarter of your RAM with your leechy graphics card. YAY!

Seriously, why do bundled computers always seem to lack a good graphics card? If I made those sets I would make sure there was one catered for the gamer.

Anyway, I recommend that you settle for lousy sound and spend all the money on a good graphics card. I do think your system's a tad expensive tho.

On second thought, you SHOULD buy this system!! They give you an optical mouse, and just in case it breaks down, they GIVE YOU A MOUSEPAD!! :wink:

 

I agree. And if you need to know how to do it, try looking at this site.

 

Yes, ditch the graphics card for a Geforce 4 Ti or equivalent, and personally I'd go for 512Mb RAM too.

 

I'm looking at almost the exact same system from Dell, except that I opted for a GeForce4 - and the price is $919, including tax and shipping. Otherwise nearly the same: 2.0 P4 processor, 80GB 7200 RPM HD, 17" monitor, etc etc.

I think Gateway is trying to take you by the short hairs....

EDIT = oh, and mine has 512MB RAM, not 256MB

 

I thought it was suspicious that the guy at their store talked like a car salesman...

Thanks for your help, Milo, Sherriff, Reg.

Tzehoong, Intel Extreme Graphics isn't sold in stores because it's integrated ( uke: ).

Luchaire, can you give me the URL for the system you're looking at?

 

Dell's Home/Home Office site.

Use their system configurator thing. Pick a base model and customize it.

Also, check out FatWallet.com's Dell page for some coupons or deals. Sometimes you can find some really nice deals or $100-$200 off coupons there.

 

I tried the Dell website and the cheapest I could get it to go was $1,200... and that's with 256 MB RAM and no graphics card.

Thanks for the coupon site, Milo! Discounts are gooooood...

 

Dell is tricky, but if you work the site right, you can weasel the price. Also, use the Small Business section, not the home/home office section - often, there will be better deals... dunno why. I'll cruise over there and see what I can work up now...

EDIT: okay, a quick run-through turned up the following for $979 with free shipping... apply a coupon or two and it gets right cheap... add a few bucks and you can upgrade the vid card, sound, whatever...


Dell Dimension 4500 Series
Dimension™ 4500, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.0GHz w/ 512K L2
Cache
Date: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:35:37 PM CDT
Catalog Number: 04 04
Dell Dimension 4500 Series: Dimension™ 4500, Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.0GHz w/ 512K L2 Cache
Memory: 256MB DDR SDRAM
Keyboard: Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard
Monitors: 17 in (16.0 in viewable,.27dp) E772 Monitor
Video Cards: New 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4â„¢ Ti 4200 Graphics Card with TV Out and DVI
Hard Drive: 40GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive
Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Mouse: Dell® 2-button scroll mouse
Broadband Ready/ Ethernet Network Card: 10/100 PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
Modem: 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem
CD or DVD Drive: 24x/10x/40x Max CD-RW Drive with Roxio's Easy CD Creator®
Sound Card: Integrated Audio
Speakers: New Harman Kardon® HK-206 Speakers
Software Bundles: Microsoft® Works Suite 2002 w/Money Standard
Virus Protection: Norton AntiVirusâ„¢ 2002, 90-day introductory offer
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 1 Year Limited Warranty plus 1 Year On-site Service
Internet Access Service: 6 Months AOL,Featuring the Netbusiness Service for Small Business
Special Offers: Free Largan Digital Camera

 

You only have to pay tax if you're in Texas when using the home section of the site. Small Business sections, you pay tax no matter what. I'm not too sure about this, though...

I'll have a look over there, too. See what I can put together. Don't forget to add any coupons or deals (like free shipping). Sometimes they can add up to a real nice discount. Also, check out the refurbished section. If I remember correctly, Dell refurbs come with the full warranty, which is a nice way of saving even more money without sacrificing anything.

 

Thought I should mention - to get the system I quoted a few days ago (with 80GB HD and 512MB RAM) I used several coupons I found... 2 of which expired on 8/21 (naturally). I'm sure a look around would turn up more coupons though.

Personally, I've decided to put off a new 'puter til January, when I'll have upwards of 2 grand to play with.

 

Yeesh, you're right, Etalis. Pre-built computers are fucking expensive!

I could not put together a decent system for under a grand. Not at Dell or Micron, at least...

If you want to stick with reputable dealers, and you don't want to build your own, then check out this system: http://www.pcnut.com/systems/stealthf.htm

It's roughly comparable to the system that me and Fatman put together. Same mobo, same CPU, same amount of RAM, all good stuff using retail parts. Geforce 4 ti 4200, all that stuff for $1,125. It's not a bad price for what you get, and it's not loaded with a bunch of useless shit like a Dell of a Gateway. The company (PCNut) also has a real good reputation for customer service. Check out their reseller rating and read some of the reviews: 9.76 out of 10, overall from 389 reviews. Also, all the stuff is overclockable, should you choose to do that. The Dell and Gateway are not. Hell, I just checked PCNut again and they'll o/c the system to 2.5ghz for you for an additional $20. This voids the Intel warranty, but PCNut offers their own 1 year parts/labor. Upgrade from a 60gb to an 80gb HDD for another $15.

They have a good reputation among the hardware geek sites. They use top quality parts. Apparently, the owner is real easy to get in touch with, which is a good thing.

Still, I think you should give building your own computer a try.

 

It must be different in the USA. Dell couldn't even approach the spec of the machine Milo recommended for the money. Here's the difference:

Milo Machine™: 1.8GHz P4, 60GB Barracuda, 512MB Corsair, Asus533 mobo (good sound + LAN), Pioneer DVD/CDROM, newest Antec line case, NVidia G4 Ti4400 .... £820

Dell Dimension 4500: 2.0GHz P4, 40GB unnamed, 256MB, Dell unspec'd mobo, Dell combo CDR/DVD/CDROM, SB 5.1 Audigy, Nvidia G4 MX ||| 56K Modem, Windows XP, 3 year Warranty ... £940

On the Dell, the bits after the bar are things I didn't want but was not allowed to remove. (I could have had a 1 yr warranty, but instead of letting me remove it altogether, they offered 3 yr at the same price) I'd have had to pay more to get a LAN card (which I need). This was the absolute best price Dell would give me. I had to talk to them on the phone to get it.

I also checked Compaq(HP), Gateway, Mesh, Tiny, Time, etc. Pretty much the same story everywhere, except not quite as good as Dell. The only two convincing reasons anyone has given me for going to Dell are if you want a complete system (ie. you don't have a mouse, monitor, keyboard, floppy, O/S to re-use) or if you think you'll use the support.

 

General rules:

- Don't buy anything with integrated graphics. They put this shit in pre-built systems to make them appear chaper.

- Which graphic card to choose is pretty hard question. Depends on what games you want to play. Best deal nowadays is GF4 4400 which you can overclock to 4600 easily. Radeons are better but Nvidia's frequently issued detonators tip the scales to GF advantage. Which manufacturer of GF? I recently bouth GF3Ti200 from Gainward and am really happy with it - on the other hand I heard that Gainward lowers prices and it's product quality also gets lower - can't say I noticed anyhting wrong with my card. Whether you need GF4 is up you. It is supposed to dispaly graphics a bit better but it's additional features are not used (and will not be used for quite some time still). Moreover Nvidia will let out it's NV30 graphic processor later on. IMO it's better to stick with GF3 and wait for whatever will be after NV30.

- RAM it's good to have more than 256MB. 320-390 (256+64/128 respectively) is nice. You won't notice any difference between it and 512MB.

- processor: If you really want Intel then at least buy one which price is lower due to the fact of Athlon competiiton. There's huge price leap with those P4s which are faster than any Athlon available - It's simply Intel bastards policy. Plus when you bought Duron a few years ago you could easily swap it to also socketA Athlon. Intel issued first P3 slot1, then changed to socket370, now it's 478 IIRC. answer yourself what you prefer.

- Beats me why people buy pre-built systems. When you choose parts by yourself it's much cheaper and the hardest part is plugging mainboard to power. Buy mboard, case and have the seller plug it.

 

If you want a cheap, but good GF4, get a Palit Daytona Geforce4 TI4200 128MB.

I got one for less than 200$ 3 weeks ago, and the price keeps dropping.

And I have had no problems with it whatsoever. It doesn't come with any bundled games. In fact, the only extra things you get are a TV-out cable and an nVidia driver CD...

 

That PC Nut computer is incredible! Even the shipping is cheaper than anything else I could find. The only problem is that it doesn't come with a monitor - I'd have to order that seperately and add at least $200 to the price, putting it just barely (about $50) out of my budget. Time to go wash some cars...

And the sound system is "onboard". Does that mean I can't upgrade it later?

 

No, you can have integrated sound card on your mboard and add ordinary sound card to that. That's what I have and it's working just fine.