Choosing DarkElven path + alternative ending

Discussion in 'Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum' started by Gildorn, Jun 6, 2011.

Remove all ads!
Support Terra-Arcanum:

GOG.com

PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!
  1. Gildorn

    Gildorn Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    This relates only to Arcanum 1, so if this post is in wrong category, may admins move it to some Arcanum Modding forum or something - it is a suggestion of Module for Arcanum (1, not 2)

    SPOILER WARNING - All mods that have something to do with the main story may be considered spoiler - in case you haven't finished Arcanum as both good and evil character, don't read it unless you are ready to see the things before you play it.

    It is a great pity that storyline for evil character -> M'in Gorad - and then K'an Hua - it is too short and scuffled if we compare it to storyline of good character - from M'in Gorad thru Raven and Silver Lady - thru Panarii quests (St.Mannox), finding Nasrudin at Thanatos...

    Also i guess there could be more of alternative end screens of the game - e.g. for Dark Elves - that Arronax once again restores the old Elven Council in order to rule all "lesser races" of Arcanum :)

    I have done some work before i joined the forum cos i hoped there would be place for some editormen to do expansions - i wouldn't have the time, but the story... i couldn't help, but there would be some expansion needed ...

    Notes to my entry:

    - Dark Elves think that Arronax is the one they have to prepare the way for... ironic is that actually Kerghan is the one that is returning

    - Even as DarkElf - that means player has chosen ELF as his race and would follow the path of Dark Elves, fulfill the quests for M'in Gorad and K'an Hua - i wouldn't say it is path of evil and evil ending - in the light of the fact that actually Kerghan is true evil, the rule of Arronax would be an alternative anti-tech and pro-elven solution for rule over Arcanum. In comparison to Kerghan's "solution" - death for all life - the supremacy of the elven council ruled by Arronax and his loyal Dark Elves would be lesser evil, sparing those loyal to them. :)

    My entry:
    Alternative enhanced storyline for DarkElf path:
    Player returns from Vendigroth Ruins with the device and either give the device to K'an Hua to destroy it or
    lies to K'an, telling him that "the Device has been destroyed. I did it."
    (there should be new possibilities unlocked - 1.to allow K'an Hua to destroy the device, 2.to tell K'an Hua to spare the device, just for sure, persuading him it could be useful weapon for Arronax)

    K'an Hua then let you choose either to banish you to the Void (to meet Arronax) - classical storyline that is already in the game
    or to wait, finding solution how to break the wards, so that Arronax may return.
    (Of course Dark Elves don't know that Kerghan the Terrible is the one that is returning)

    Possible scenarios of the result of alternative choice - waiting for "Arronax"; The Elves, mainly the dark elf faction assemble together
    to Ring of Brodgar "to see, welcome and celebrate the magnificient return of their master, Arronax"

    Dark, Red-and gold person appears in the Ring of Brodgar (looking the same as in the desert - Mysterious Appartition)

    Arronax (with this name, but, actually Kerghan): I have returned, my dear ones, to exact my vengeance and your vengeance upon Arcanum.
    Arise, my people and together we shall bring death unto all that would stand in our way. Death. DEATH!!! Life is an abomination.

    K'an Hua: Massster? I do not recognizze you. You are Arronax, yess? Gloriouss you were, gloriouss. Yet what happened to you, masster?
    You want us all DEAD ass you are, yesss? Yet how shall we reign, being dead, o masster?

    Arronax (with this name, but, actually Kerghan): After I was banished by my own father, I died in the Void. That place is not the utter destruction as we always believed.
    It is a place like this Arcanum. I have died and been reborn. As for you, you do not need to reign, loyal elf. Neither we need to. We must end all life - the atrocity.
    By my rebirth, I realized that without THIS LIFE, there will be PEACE. There will be ORDER, in the plain of mirrored glass. In the great Dead Sea.

    K'an Hua: Whaaaat? You think our proud and gloriousss race will obey YOU! The Terrible one, yess? You are not Arronax, noo! You would
    think you would trick usss, yeess. K'an Hua is relative of Arronax, yeess, and he knowss that Arronax cannot be dead. Arronax, our
    TRUE masster, is not bloody necromancer, as you are, yess.

    Player: (You turn to K'an Hua) What? THIS is NOT ARRONAX? He appeared to me in desert, threatening my life, saying he is Arronax, 'vengeful God of Arcanum'.

    K'an Hua: This is not Arronax, noo. Thiss iss Kerghan, Kerghan the Terrible. Yet how could he return? Thiss cannot bee.

    Kerghan the Terrible: Huhahahahaha. (laughs evilly) Foolish elves. Thinking highly of themselves, they do not understand my power. And yet have I the opportunity to grasp the praise I never received. You and your council rejected me and had banished me to the Void for discovering necromancy. Maybe it is the time you knew that NO ONE can escape DEATH. I, as a human, have always envied your long life. But I, Kerghan, have discovered something more - I discovered PEACE. Even elven life will end, and will no longer be. Let me relieve your pain of this being.

    Player: Where is Arronax and what happened to him?

    Kerghan the Terrible: Oh, our pitiful Arronax. I have had him chained in the place you call Void. I could not tolerate his arrogance
    to jeopardize my goals. My noble goals to end all life and lead the souls to peace.

    scenario A: (in case the device has been spared by K'an)

    K'an Hua: Leave uss be, Kerghan. If you think thiss life iss abomination, we do not. I shall send you where you can go forever and you
    shall not return to uss anymore, that's it, yess.

    Kerghan the Terrible: How can you do that? You may kill me, but it will not help. I need to be severed from this world, forever, without any chance to return. And that, old elf, I do not know HOW you want to accomplish.

    K'an Hua: Nicee it iss. (He turns to you) You were very wissse to keep the deviccce, yess. For that, you shall have a gloriousss seat in
    the elven council when it is renewed, yess. (He turns to Kerghan) Behold Kerghan, thiss iss the Vendigroth devicce. Thiss will remove the mortal
    shell forever. You shall never return, Terrible one, to uss, we shall not suffer from you, and you shall not suffer from our livess, yess.

    Kerghan the Terrible: Ahh, I... I am touched that you, being elves could possibly help me, human, whom do you hate and want to suffer. We are from different worlds.
    I do not belong here, and perhaps you don't belong to the place where I am going. Use the Device on me, so that I can go home. To eternity. To freedom.

    Player: So shall it be.

    --Kerghan is removed by Vendigroth device
    --hours later, Arronax returns with all dwarf survivors of Black Mountain Clan. They made it through.

    Arronax: K'an Hua. It is you! Or do my eyes deceive me, spending 2000 years in the Void? What has happened here, brother?

    K'an Hua: Arronax! My masster, you have returned at lassst! You know, Kerghan who bound you in the Void, has agreed that we use the
    deviccce of Vedigroth on him, yeeesss. He iss no more. The time for the restoration of our new council hass come, yess...

    scenario B: (in case the device has been destroyed by K'an)

    K'an Hua: (bursts with burning dark-elvish hatred) You will pay for this outrage, you monster! You will pay for dishonor of Arronaxxx! (attacks Kerghan)

    Kerghan: Huhahaha! You fool! Do you really think your magick can stop me? (drains all the fatigue of K'an Hua, leaving him to fall to the ground, without conscience)

    Kerghan: (turns to you) Do you see my power? I have shown you once in the desert if you remember... Consider what side will benefit you more.

    Player: You are threatening my life, imposter! Why have you lied, trying to convince all that you are Arronax, chosen from the Elves, the ruler of Arcanum?

    Kerghan: Because i've got tired of this atrocity, this LIFE!!! Follow me, and I'll show you the things you never imagined. Your passing won't hurt that much.

    Player: Never!

    Kerghan drains all your fatigue and you see yourself on the ground, seeing Kerghan laughing to your face, taunting you for hours

    --it lasts for hours until Arronax returns with all dwarf survivors of Black Mountain Clan. They made it through.
    --as you can see, Arronax is wielding a strange large fiery blade - Kryggird's falchion he recovered in Void.

    Arronax: As long as the son of Nasrudin lives, you shall not walk freely the lands of Arcanum, Kerghan. I do realize the pain and
    unrighteousness I caused in past, but MY rule and MY domination would at least not endanger countless numbers of lives as your abominable necromancy!

    Kerghan: (turns to Arronax) ARRONAX! You were supposed to be chained in darkness of the Void forever for your crimes and your endless arrogance. ...

    Arronax: (with his typical scream) If I must die, I will be the last! Taste the fury of the Kryggird's falchion, Kerghan!
    --He kills Kerghan with the Kryggird's falchion

    --Arronax establishes the council once again and you have your seat in it - if you are an ELF


    PLUS.. there could be some epilogue comment of Arronax, considering his final and warm-greeted return by his brethen, saying:

    "To my shame I have caused great pain in the past,
    if it was not for my arrogance, Vendigroth would still last.
    Yet as true son of Nasrudin have I come,
    to stop in time the terrible one, Kerghan.
    My divine duty it was to suck out our death, Kerghan's venom,
    to prove that I am savior and rightful ruler of Arcanum."


    Feel free to comment :)
     
  2. Constipation

    Constipation New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    The fuck did I just read.

    A cheesy scenario for a lame kid's show, that's what.

    How old are you? Jesus.
     
  3. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,390
    Likes Received:
    28
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Nice script, really.

    What's your problem? Constipation?

    What do think Arcanum is, a grown-up story?
     
  4. Drog Alt

    Drog Alt Member

    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
  5. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    The reactions alone have piqued my interest; this thread is like the 2 Girls 1 Cup of Arcanum!

    However, due to the spoilers I don't think I'll indulge.
     
  6. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,175
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Excessively dramatic and far-fetched, with characters being caricatures of their in-game selves. Were you, by any chance, a member of the Fallout 3 team?
     
  7. Rain-Dog

    Rain-Dog Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Someone call the fire service, somebody got burned

    But yeah, sorry and that, but this is pretty bad.

    Is English your first language?
    Also, as people have pointed your writing is a little melodramatic:
    Also from an in-game point of view, this leaves the player doing... nothing?

    And finally, the rhymy epilogue, what is this? Richard II?

     
  8. Gildorn

    Gildorn Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Fallout 3 team... nay, I don't give a damn to Fallout 3 yet as I am ol' classic Fallout fan - I prefer the golden age of 90-ies 2D isometric Falloutz, the wonderful times, when graphics were smooth, nice and bitmap - not as the crispy, angular 3D :p

    Rain-Dog: English ain't my 1st language, that's why I TRY and excercise to do storylines for RPGs. Actually I study English (morphology, phonetics & phonology etc.) at university.

    Yeah, this is a demonstration of platitude-like faux pas and could be replaced by something to make the whole matter more integrated.

    Yeah, as you observe the reactions of K'an Hua in my addition I think the use of his "yeeesss" endings is appropriate, cos this is really his expression as you can see it in the game. And Kerghan? In comparison to his long dialogue in original - in Void - well, once he would enter Arcanum (you know his goal), he wouldn't have much to say, either.

    I admit some phrases are unnecessarily far-fetched cos I've made it in few minutes... nevertheless though, Arcanum as every RPG is a literary artistic work according to its storyline.
    Maybe some of you don't put stock in story and dialogues, but heck that makes the whole point of the storyline! Dramatic dialogues between the characters and philosophies of the particular factions in Arcanum. No matter, those of you prefering rather barbarian hack-and-slash aspect can't be convinced either way I guess...

    ytzk: are U really my advocate or so do I think? thx then, first time I thought you wanna say my problem should be "constipation" and I asked myself "yet how does that make it different, with or without constipation?" :lol: ... then I realized Constipation was the first one to criticise my work... well, maybe you look at Arcanum with the scope all RPGs should be observed - as an artistic work, and thus seeing inside more than just mindless action... highly appreciated :)
     
  9. Constipation

    Constipation New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    You seem to be missing the point that your artistic story and dialogues consist of pure crap.
     
  10. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Hear hear! The peak of video gaming is more than a decade gone! My the downward spiral of video gaming's decadence be of a low grade!
     
  11. Gildorn

    Gildorn Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    TheDavisChanger: You have my approval. Nothing's lost though - it is good there are still fans and underground societies who would give us truth considering the games today should follow the example of some good ol' ones.
    idk if this is a good thread to mention this, but we may discuss it further if you start another thread.
     
  12. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,175
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    I'd say 3D games moved on from the angular stage years ago.

    Bad dialogues are one thing, though when I said "far-fetched", rather than dialogues I mostly meant the story. It's filled with plot holes, made up lore and decisions that the in-game characters would never make, unless someone decided to completely rewrite their personalities and goals.

    The impression is that you either only heard about Kerghan and Arronax but never got to the stage of the game where you actually get to meet them or simply missed/ignored Kerghan's point & detailed plan and Arronax's internal metamorphosis for your own amusement.

    Rejecting story and dialogues of arguable quality was a sign of putting stock in story and dialogues, last time I checked.

    Key word: "excessively". Excessively dramatic behaviour and speeches are an awkward thing that is uncomfortable to see and hear.

    How is that a response to anything that was said in this thread?
     
  13. Rain-Dog

    Rain-Dog Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Exactly. Just because we didn't like what you'd (badly) written does not mean that we mindlessly skip through dialogue to get to the slashysword bits. We don't. If we weren't interested in games with "literary artistic" merit and only hackin'n'slashin,' we sure as fuck wouldn't still be hanging around a forum for a decade-old game with a rather crappy combat system.

    Nobody here "don't put stock in story and dialogues," that's why we're here, and getting all condescendy at us isn't going to make your writing, both of dialogue and plot, trite, melodramatic and out-of-keeping with the game world.

    EDIT:

    Oh and ytzk - Arcanum is a 'grown-up' story, unless the books you were read as a child included horrific rapes, brothels and an existential monologue on the advantages of worldwide genocide. Although, on second thoughts, that would explain a lot.
     
  14. Gildorn

    Gildorn Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    ONCE AGAIN - spoiler warning - we are now analysing the story in the game...

    I am fully aware of the philosophical differences between the characters and the factions in the game and have completed Arcanum several times - even have I seen the dialogue of Z'an Al'urin with Arronax. You know, I've made up this knowingly.
    As I was playing 1st time as evil character - an elf, I wanted to style myself as a Dark Elf, cos I was curious about K'an Hua that you can't meet as a good character. Already knowing the storyline from good character playing, as an elven patriot I was very afraid how would that end, knowing that Arronax is trapped and Kerghan is actually returning - cos I didn't know whether K'an Hua is powerful enough to send you to Void. And even though - why should he do so, when he could calmly wait for breaking the wards. It was a great surprise for me when he sent me to Void, saying 'It is Arronax's will'. I would be very interested at that point whether he really heard the voice of trapped Arronax or if it was Kerghan, wanting you to lure you to him.

    And so I though to myself: "Noo, I hope Dark Elves CANNOT join Kerghan. It would be against us, against the whole concept of Elven Council and our superiority. And if Kerghan successfully deceived Dark Elves saying 'he is Arronax', they would all believe him and... in the best moment of their unawareness... he would end their life? Noo, it cannot be I hope... They should see he doesn't look elven, but is indeed a stinky human necromancer"

    Even Arronax, when you meet him in Void, realizing that Kerghan is impersonating him, he says:
    It is pity that K'an Hua, Arronax, Dark elves and Elven Council together are missed in the end sequences. The only one with Arronax is that he raises Vendigroth once again.
    My goal was to add a new end sequence and possibility of ending event. Eventually, the player could decide and convince Arronax to restore the Elven Council as in the Age of Legends, of course it could be more liberal than in the past - it could be more friendly towards non-elves, knowing the fact that Arronax regrets his actions... Dark Elves could either follow him, making themselves liberal as the Arronax has changed, or together they could return him to his old character, making him to remember the glorious Age of Legends 'that should be restored' as a suitable counter-balance to the current threat of technology.
    As the ultimate tools of judgement, the council could take hold of Vendigroth Device or Kryggird's falchion, instead of banishing to Void which has proved unsuccessful due to fact that Void is not oblivion.

    You know, I understand the story and was aware of the plot so that I could patch up any holes that could appear - long before I joined the forum... If any plot hole appears, it can always be patched by something unless it really has to be modified somehow. I am maniac on RPG stories - I remember even Fallouts (1,2, & Tactics) with its quests, plots, etc. until today.
    Try to find some more holes... How would Arronax escape from Void? Well, if the wards were broken and Kerghan would pass through, then all beings in Void could do so and follow after Kerghan. The BMC dwarves could release Arronax from his prison (but... possibly there would be needed some escort character into Void instead of player... well who knows). ...and so on...
    but try to find another holes.... I am glad that you all comment - it is good that we discuss it as it can improve and improve. What else are forums for? :)
     
  15. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,175
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    This, meaning what? The fact that K'an Hua is all of a sudden a relative of Arronax in your fanfic? What purpose was that even supposed to serve?

    Was it to give him some bizarre magickal powers enabling him to tell whether Arronax is alive or not, while he was in the Void = a different dimension? Strange how those powers weren't powerful enough for him to know that another supposed relative of his, Nasrudin, is alive and well here, in Arcanum, fairly close to his Caladonian office too.

    I take it it isn't obvious for you that it was Kerghan? Arronax had absolutely no contact with Arcanum since his banishment.

    While we're at it, in your story, you took the liberty of saying that K'an Hua would let you choose whether you want to be banished to the Void or not. This is ignoring Kerghan's plan. It was not in his interest to let you wait - he wanted and needed you in the Void before his return.

    It was never part of his plan to have them join him after his return. He only needed them to get out of the Void, he has no use of them afterwards. This renders his whole speech to the dark elves after his return in your story redundant, not to mention how obviously pointless (=with no chance of persuasive success) it would be.

    Ah yes, 3 meter high figures hiding their racial features under their robes transforming into giant metal dragons are obviously human necromancers.

    This reminded me how amusing it was in your story that K'an Hua insulted Kerghan for being a necromancer even though he is a dedicated necromancer himself.

    Also, what's with the prejudice? What's with calling Kerghan stinky and pure evil? What's with making him laugh at you and taunt you for hours? Doesn't he have better things to do than that, like carrying out his plan?

    You also make Kerghan abandon his plan, the one on which he was working for two thousand years, the one that in his eyes was the only way to free the whole world of suffering, and why? Because someone showed him some kindness (if it can be even called that)? How is that even logical?

    They are missed because there is nothing to be said about them. Arronax has his ending. The Elven Council is non-existent. As for K'an Hua and the dark elves, they spend centuries to free a person who is not interested in helping them. They are a fairly small group who lost their leaders (the spiritual leadership of Arronax, M'in Gorad due to the Living One, K'an Hua due to Alexander) and their power (authority over the Panarii), their homeplace is no longer a secret and they have to deal with the Molochean Hand seeking revenge for deceiving it. They are pretty much done.

    Arronax had two thousand years to ponder his actions and he clearly sees them as mistakes. He even restores Vendigroth, the very nation that opposed the Council, proving that he does not want the Council to be reborn. There is nothing supporting the opinion that persuading him to change his mind would be possible.

    And why in the world would they do that?

    Just exactly why would they be left alive and free to roam the Void after their portal to Arcanum would be complete?

    How?
     
  16. Gildorn

    Gildorn Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Well, enthustiastic alternative it is... It is pity that the Elven Council would end up like that... and that a faction like Dark Elves would be left without worth mentioning. Nasrudin and Arronax both would end the council, cos they both are skeptical for its errors they have made - Nasrudin's error - that he raised Arronax this way and Arronax that he obeyed and pursued this idea.

    Haven't you completed Arcanum with a character that can convince Kerghan not to do so and to 'send himself where he wants to go if he doesn't like the LIFE'? - and then he willingly agrees to be removed by Vendigroth Device.

    Considering K'an Hua - according to the St.Mannox's journal, he claims himself to be "son of an original Elven Council member" - maybe somehow related to Nasrudin ? - and in that consequence also to Arronax, as long as Arronax is Nasrudin's son. At least he could be their friend. We could argue about the fact if he was not one of the original members of the council, cos he is mentioned in the journal somehow that way. And so, figurately told "relative" he could be - a close friend of Arronax from the Age of Legends.

    And I bet K'an Hua KNEW about Nasrudin - but he has made it obscure for the Panarii to make them think Nasrudin is dead so that he and Arronax might rule. He killed Mannox and Panarii thinks that the corpse of Mannox beneath the temple is actually Nasrudin (unless the player discovers it, with right finger missing)

    The issue about knowing Arronax is alive could be solved by clairvoyant Z'an Al'urin saying Kerghan something like: "You are lying! I know Arronax is alive. I just feel it." Would it be a problem you think? Z'an Al'urin knows and sees many things even though she says she can't tell you.

    But you are wrong to mention that M'in Gorad would be killed by Living One, and K'an Hua by Alexander, because if you play the dark-elven path, none of this happens. In fact, as evil character - you are the agent of Dark Elves and what you do serves for their profit. In this storyline, as you can know, you can't work for Alexander and for K'an Hua as well, so this way, Alexander would never find out how the Panarii were deceived. And Molochean Hand - they would be hostile, yeah, but any of those could be dealt with.

    To do that, Dark Elves should manipulate Arronax to return to his old ways and keep him the true, unchanged Arronax - to form the same "good and old despotic Elven Council", letting him not to deem his past actions as evil, because he has done so for the safety of elven race - even Vendigroth was destroyed in fear of technology. They would show all the world of Arcanum that they won't be threatened by anyone and would put an end to any existing governments - mainly those technological - Tarant should be defeated. Dernholm - in case that it remained ruled by King Preator and his magic-supporters would be allied with the elven council. In case of Maximillian returned to Cumbria, the kingdom should be defeated. ... and so on... and the rule of the world by Elven Council is once again at hand.

    I don't know what all abilities Kerghan can have - and how it was possible that he communicated with the Dark Elves from the Void, I just hoped as a player that time that he couldn't transform himself the way he could deceive the Dark Elves even after his returning. Huh, Mysterious Appartition... ironic is that when player first time meets him, really thinks this is how Arronax looks like. :)
    It is really a question if the Dark Elves had seen him this way, whether they believed him to be Arronax or not...
    Maybe if he appeared, he Dark Elves and all of Arcanum that wish to live would attack him outright. Then they would realize that Kerghan has returned and not Arronax. They - and you as a player - would need to find out 'where is Arronax, then?' - the quests would be to return Arronax from the Void, make him listen and obey the good old propaganda and not to regret his actions.

    The thing that would follow would be the last quest - war on Arcanum against all those who would not submit to the superiority of the Elves.

    btw.
    Do you know what pathetic guardians guard Arronax? One Spirit Snake and two Storm Lords (I think they are Storm Lords). The dwarves could overhear the plans of Kerghan, knowing that Arronax is the only powerful one in the Void that could equal Kerghan, despite of his defeat. So they could stealthily escape the Kerghan's castle and kill those that guard Arronax. Once Arronax is free, don't forget that he is possibly the most powerful character besides Kerghan. I know - not in the gameplay, but according to story. And so those Storm Lords and Bludgeoners shouldn't be a problem for Arronax. BMC could make bargain with Arronax to stop Kerghan.

    In the end sequence it is said that in Arcanum, nothing is at all - there are possibilities... It seems to me that Arcanum has only one global ending - ending on the behalf of technology that is new and modern...
    The renewal of the Elven Council would balance the possibilities of victory of either of the sides.
    Interesting - can we assume that Arronax, after releasing him and raising Vendigroth has turned into way of technology? Or tries to keep the balance between magic & technology?

    But if it was the message the authors wanted to point out that globally, magic is an old ancient past and technology is the future, ok then.

    Better now? Or maybe I should delete my whole thread and my profile from the forum, if my input is useless...
     
  17. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,175
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    There's a long way from "son of a member of the council" to "relative of Nasrudin". What you're doing in your story is drawing unsupported conclusions.

    I have. In the game, Kerghan abandons his plan because the Living One points out possible flaws in his outlook, a rather significant part which you seem to have forgotten to include in your story.

    I guess that's why he was screaming "you can't still be alive" when attacking Nasrudin at the Ring of Brodgar, then.

    A much better solution, that.

    I described the good ending, since it is the one that usually ends up being canon. In the evil ending M'in Gorad and K'an Hua may survive, but the dark elves still lose Arronax as their spiritual leader, which leaves their forces and morals weak.

    After all, instead of taking over Arcanum just like that, they have spend centuries to weaken the wards, meaning this was the easier path to success for them. This clearly indicates that they are well aware that without Arronax, they don't have the means to take over Arcanum.

    And with Arronax actually rejecting his former outlook, a devastating schism is bound to additionally rip the dark elves as a group apart from the inside.

    I wouldn't be so certain about that. I'd say it is unsure which side would win the conflict.

    Arronax has two thousand years worth of contemplation behind him. All the dark elves have is a whole lot of unquestioned prejudice. To him, they are misguided children who have not yet grown out of his flawed youthful outlook. Again, I don't see how they have anything to say that could persuade him to change his mind.

    It's not just a matter of my opinion, though - the very fact that Arronax, when released from the Void, restored Vendigroth shows that no, it is canon that the dark elves did not succeed in changing Arronax's mind.

    They are pathethic for a lvl 50 Living One, yes, but not necessarily so for a handful of hungry, weak, tortured, unarmed, naked dwarven engineers.

    Hungry, weak, tortured, unarmed, naked dwarven engineers, locked in a chamber guarded by a bludgeoner, stealthily escaping a castle crawling with undead master warriors.

    It's the very definition of far-fetched.

    I don't think we have a reason to assume that he did.

    You don't really possess the power to do that.
     
  18. Gildorn

    Gildorn Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Then I know the solution for this alternative ending...
    But... it would be very grievous - if dark elves are to succeed, they need only one thing - to kill 'cowardly Arronax' and be ruled by the player - corrupted Living One - if your race is ELF.
    I think your overpowered player character is the one that determines any result of the story ending.

    In the conclusion, there would be mention that with K'an Hua, M'in Gorad and Z'an Al'urin you have restored once again the old Elven Council and taken your place as a spiritual leader of the dark elves and have been given the title of true Arronax.
    Now, the fun would be the fact that 'Arronax' is not literal Arronax, but the allegorical title for the one that REALLY has the power to achieve the goals dark elves were working on.

    That leaves another issues for sequel, yeah! :D
    War on Arcanum is imminent - war with Tarant, Caladon, Dernholm (which would have questionable position either pro- or anti-)
    ...next thing is subjugation of Qintarra and assembling of all elves to the Council... the rejecting ones would be cut off from the power...
    What do you think of such alternative?


    or....
    I do have an idea for a mod of good-character's storyline...

    I always wanted to have such an interesting character as is the first blade Gideon Laier of the Molochean Hand - as a follower in my group.
    Very surprised I was when I met him, having Torian Kel in my group - I would expect some offense at that point of the game, due to fact that G.L. is the leader of Molochean Hand and Torian Kel was the military leader of the Derian Ka. This could be incorporated. Well, you may think of the fact that Torian Kel is animated from being dead and thus must be centuries older than Gideon.

    Gideon Laier, as a first blade and successor of Trellian, as a sworn enemy of the Derian Ka, could prove to be a powerful ally at the end against Kerghan.

    How to gain Gideon Laier to your group? Well, I've came up with one possible solution - but the player should have good persuasion skills - and possibly be expert, if not master of that skill.

    Then some short conversation with him could take place.
    When the player tells Gideon that once again the Molochean Hand has been decieved by the Dark Elves, because Arronax is returning,
    player could convince Gideon to stay awhile and not run away immediately.

    Player: I need your help Gideon. As I have told you, Arronax is returning and I believe the covert methods and zealous enthusiasm you possess, could very well even the scales in our benefit. You should repay your wrong being misled by the elves and regain the honor of Molochean hand by joining me.

    Gideon Laier: The Molochean hand serves no one, friend. We work for our own profit. Why should it be our affair that Arronax is returning? Why should I bother by doing so... (you can see some hesitation in his eyes) ...even though, your offer looks tempting. ... I'll tell you what, friend. Give me some proof of worthiness of your affair and we have a deal.

    Player: If Arronax is really that powerful to cause everything that has happened... (Tell your story) ...And now he is returning, don't you think it is the affair of the Molochean Hand as well? When the wards on the Ring of Brodgar are broken and he returns, it is only a question of time that the Molochean Hand is doomed. Is it enough for you Gideon or should I bribe you otherwise?

    Gideon Laier: I see your point, friend, but if it is true what you told me about Arronax, It won't be that easy for me to take him out. We are not cowards, but it is not wise to rush forth into a battle that is already lost. I can think about one solution though - and I am giving you a proposal - If you manage to find the lost (blade/dagger/another weapon) of Trellian and give it back to me, it will prove to be a sufficient token why should I fight by your side. I see capabiility in you, (PCname), and believe you could be up for the task. Therefore, meet me at the place I'll be waiting. (He marks you a place at your map)


    The mod would contain some new lost unique weapon with tremendous power hid in a new place mod would contain - something like Bangellian Scourge - but belonging to Trellian.
    Just gimme an advice - what kind of weapon would Trellian suit most?

    This weapon then, would be in possession of Gideon Laier once you give it to him and he joins your group. (but it should stay in his possession - G.L. would leave the party if you take it from him)

    And in the end, when you realize Kerghan is the ultimate evil, not Arronax, Gideon Laier would be all warmed-up to accomplish what Trellian couldn't.

    There is an issue worth mentioning - what do you think? Could possibly Torian Kel and Gideon Laier be together in your group of followers? One of them is leader of the Molochean Hand and the second one is former leader of the Derian Ka... But yeah, Gideon does not know Torian Kel - from where would he know him?
    In the end, though, they would battle each other.

    And at the end - the Molochean Hand could be mentioned in the end sequence as well as the mention that Gideon Laier was the first one that managed to fulfill the Trellian's vow of destruction of Derian Ka, dispatching Kerghan as their leader.

    And then, Molochean hand... what fate would follow? Would it stay functional or would it be dissolved after Kerghan's defeat, seeing no reason to exist further?

    I have opened questions, maybe worthy for you to answer.
     
  19. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,175
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    A dedicated elven Living One taking Arronax's place and title and disposing of him if he's still alive would be quite an interesting ending, I'll admit.

    Z'an Al'urin would have to be dealt with somewhere on the way, if she would still be alive at that point. You said you've seen her conversation with Arronax, therefore you know what she thinks of Arronax - the one that the Dark Elves expect to free from the Void. She will feel the same way towards the Living One becoming the functional Arronax.

    The way I understand what he said, he was a leader, but not necessarily the leader.

    Having Gideon Laier as a follower would be as interesting as it would be ironic. Not sure if he could be persuaded into it, but perhaps hired as an assassin?

    Being an assassin, a dagger is the first thing that comes to mind. Making it as powerful as the Bangellian Scourge would be unnecessary, I'd say, but a custom enhanced Dagger of Speed or Katana would be fitting.

    Gideon has no way to know about Torian's past, so he would probably be okay with it. I can see how Torian could protest, though, on the ground of loyalty to his past masters.

    Kerghan isn't and never was the leader of the Derian Ka, though, no more than the son of Nasrudin is/was the leader of the Dark Elves. The order was established by his followers, presumably after his banishment.

    The Hand has been functional for the last several hundred years with the sole purpose of being an order of assassins. Kerghan's death would probably be good news for it, but not a reason to change its ways or disband.

    Gah!
     
  20. Gildorn

    Gildorn Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Muro wrote:
    I know that my reasoning concerning this is somehow primitive and maybe I'm biased against Kerghan... Well, it depends...
    According to the story, Kerghan has another philosophy what is good and what is evil - and he wants to make this fact opposite to the standard.
    According to the game, from the moment that Living One realizes that
    - this is the loading game text, if you reached the point that Arronax proves you he is not what he was believed to be...
    Kerghan is the final opponent - "the final Boss" to be dealt with. What's more, he COULD be classified as the ultimate evil globally - from the point of view of all living beings in Arcanum. You think anyone would agree with Kerghan, maybe except Torian Kel and his comrades?
     
Our Host!