About the Afterlife, reincarnation and Kerghan.

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Zalm, Mar 3, 2015.

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  1. Zalm

    Zalm New Member

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    There is something I don't have fully understand in the ending, why Kerghan needed the Vendigroth Device to be liberated from life ? Because of his regenerative magic ? Fear of being summoned by an necromancian ?
    Or because death isn't eternal ? in his speech there is this :

    So there is an form of reincarnation ? It don't makes the player objection toward his philosophy flawed ? Life is not always bad, he can choose to die permanently if he want throught break his reincarnation cycle with the Vendigroth Device but all people who can thinks like him are forced to live again and again for eternity ?
    On the other hand, it would be sad for Khergan, his current life wouldn't means he couldn't have been happy in the next.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2015
  2. papa_dog_1999

    papa_dog_1999 Well-Known Member

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    Really wish I could help you with this.
    It's been so long since I've played, I don't remember the particulars of this scenario.
    I remember I felt sorry for him once or twice. Other times I thought he was whiny. Depended on the mindset I was in for the character I was playing.
    Someone with a better memory than I will have to help.
     
  3. on1ondevelopment

    on1ondevelopment Member

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    He said that in death, one can find only peace and serenity or something like so. Perhaps these souls were just liberated from their material bodies, free to wander the lands of the dead? To be honest, I am unsure about the matter, it was really well thought out by the developers. Arronax - if you bring him to Kerghan and choose to agree with Kerghan at first - protests and claims that the time of being alive is really short compared to the time of being dead, and that you should have a good time while you're still alive. Virgil says also (if you lost him after T'sen-Ang and had to revive him in Caladon) that he has seen the world of the dead and that Kerghans saying is not completely untrue. But he also says that he enjoys the part of your existence when you're alive, the joy of growing up and learning. I quote from Virgil "Yes, there is pain in life, pain and sorrow. But there is also joy and the pleasures of growing and learning. You can't have one without the other, and I wouldn't want to sacrifice either.", which he said during the final dialogue. But then again, I am still unsure about the afterlife.
     
  4. papa_dog_1999

    papa_dog_1999 Well-Known Member

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    I'm still no help.
    However, you've lit the fires of nostalgia in me.
    I'll wind up playing it again now (if only for the soundtrack).
    It's possible one of the elders here might be able to help.
    That is, if any of them even read this section.
    They're very old and, unless there's a tree near by, fairly sedate.
    *kicks random elder in the shin*
    Any of you old folks got anything on this philosophical question??
     
  5. Ruda

    Ruda Active Member

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    I'm no elder, but I seem to recall there being some inconsistency regarding the pain involved with being brought back. Kerghan claims (and Virgil agrees with him to some extent) that life itself is suffering compared to the peace of death. This holds true when you speak with spirits brought back via Conjure Spirit. The spirit feels pain due to being able to compare the sensation of life to the sensation of death. Yet, resurrected characters feel no pain (indeed, they wake up with a boost in disposition) and don't seem to miss being dead. Compare the pained Charles Bregho to a resurrected Professor James. What Virgil discusses are the ups and downs of life; it has little to do with the actual physical pain felt by spirits.

    But perhaps this is more intricately explained in-game. It's been awhile since I visited Arcanum.
     
  6. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Nasrudin says with regards to the Vendigroth device that "it is said that one who is killed in this manner is forever separated from this world, with no chance of being returned magickally otherwise." Whether or not there is reincarnation (it could be that there is just incarnation, souls leave the sea once and then return on death barring people using necromancy on them - the sea is described as "endless" so it's not like it has a quantitative capacity) without use of the Vendigroth Device people could still pull him back to earth using necromancy which he wouldn't enjoy.

    In this way, I don't think the player's objection to his idea that being in the physical world is a painful joyless experience (saying that Pelonius Schuyler doesn't experience pain when brought back being a main counter point, and I think you argue that Charles Brehgo doesn't either) is flawed. Yes maybe there are some like him who wouldn't want to be brought back (through necromancy or through reincarnation - honestly the game doesn't give much of an indication whether reincarnation is a thing or not), but part of convincing him that he's wrong is by giving him examples of people who don't feel pain on being brought back which also likely teaches him that generalising how other people think and what is best for them isn't a good thing to do even if there are others just like him.
     
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