Make existing race playable

Discussion in 'Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum' started by Lord Deker, Jul 16, 2003.

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  1. Lord Deker

    Lord Deker New Member

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    While many agrue if new races are added, I think make those non-playable existing races playable is more important. Just watching the orcs, ogres and Dark elf in the game, but not able to play with it, make the game somewhat incomplete. :(

    As I once said, "new races" (I mean what you can choose when create new character), are possible if it could do the game play as other races. That the human, elf, dwarf, gnome, halfing are two-leg taking being, they interact freely (I mean at least they can talk with others).

    Maybe adding new races ruin the game world, but make the Ogres, Orcs, Female Halfing, Female Gnome, Female Orcs works make sense, isn't it? While I find Female Dwarf makes no sense at all. (Any Male Dwarf, esspecially Magnus, will KOS on you! :eek: )

    And one more races needed is Troll. They exist, right? Though they are usally chased by "Holy Man", but according to the backgrounds they are chased because of their look. If some less ugly, more polite Troll exist, they can interact with human as if orcs interact with elves.

    Troll may be : +2st +2cn +4regen rate -6be - 4ch -2in +2melee

    And they are not nessary evil, just like Ogres, Big guys not too bright.

    Glory to the Orcs! And our ally Trolls! :D (green face union)
     
  2. Cobrec

    Cobrec New Member

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    Races

    I totally agree, It would be cool to be a dark elf. I also think it would be cool if you could be like a pirate, or mercanary, or bounty hunter. I like a game with a plot, but I also like to wander around and explore. Following the pre written plot makes the game end too quickly.
     
  3. Cobrec

    Cobrec New Member

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    one thing I forgot to add, is it would be nice if you could ride horses, or even have like horse and wagons to get around, after all it's the 1800's you shouldn't have to hike every where...... Even Louis and Clark didn't walk all the way across the USA. Maybe even Model T cars????



    Maybe someone can make a mod or something
     
  4. Ferret

    Ferret New Member

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    One thing you're forgetting about the dark Elf. They are identical in all respects, save one, to the normal Elves. You also have the opportunity to pick a dark Elf background, so effectively, you ARE playing a dark Elf.

    That one difference is belief. Their beliefs differ from those of normal Elves, so they are shunned. The only reason you don't start out at Tsen'Ang is because the plot requires you to be on the Zephyr to find the ring. Not all dark Elves would be privvy to the information about the return of Arronax, and therefore you would probably not know anyway.

    Therefore, I think the inclusion of a playable Dark Elf is as good as you're going to get in Arcanum and it's up to the player to make themselves a dark Elf, through their actions, not some dark Elf generic 'template' you can pick on character creation.
     
  5. Sleek_Jeek

    Sleek_Jeek New Member

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    WHAT ABOUT THE UNDEAD??? they;re in the game too! why cant i be an undead warrior!!!

    oh wait... :throwup: thats why...
     
  6. Lord Deker

    Lord Deker New Member

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    [ One thing you're forgetting about the dark Elf. They are identical in all respects, save one, to the normal Elves. You also have the opportunity to pick a dark Elf background, so effectively, you ARE playing a dark Elf. /quote]

    Yes that is a problem. In arcanum they are same as elves, and there is a dark elf background. So maybe elven sub-race like Dark Elves should not be a race. Thanks for remainding me, Ferret.

    And the Undead agruement remain me of Torian Kel, the Undead Fighter. Yes, undead is possible to be played in Arcanum. But an important concept is that Undead Fighter is not a RACE, it is a BACKGROUND, like the cause of Dark Elves. And they must be given a fleshly body (Flesh Meat), so that they look human.

    Remember the case of Torian Kel? He is Undead, sure, but his RACE is HUMAN. So that if you want to be undead, you can be Drawven Undead, Human Undead, Orc Undead, with Undead being the BACKGROUND only.

    Anyway, [Glory to Orcs and our ally Trolls/color] :D
     
  7. Sleek_Jeek

    Sleek_Jeek New Member

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    I'm so sick of the whole dark elf thing anyway... its all because of the popularity of d'rizzt do'urden (the popular forgotten realms book series poster child) i mean, who gives a shit? and what about the other races? why cant they hae some evil half cousin? like dark halfings, or dark pixies? or white orcs?

    also why the fuck is it always dark=evil light =good? i mean, lets tear down this racist system!! color means nothing motherfucker! besides, in forgotten realms the dark elves live underground... so why the hell would they be dark!!!! they would only evolve with more pigment in their skin if they were closer to the sun... if they lived in the lithosphere of the earth they wouldnt have pigment at all! they'd have opaque, or possibly transparent skin if they lived in complete darkness! thats why the sun would hurt them! not if their skin was loaded with protective black pigment!
     
  8. Snowmane

    Snowmane New Member

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    Wow, I haven't read a "sentence" that makes less sense than that in a while. It has nothing to do with racism, contrary to your belief. Colors have had certain signifigance for a long, long time. Does this mean that if you're black (brown) you're evil? No, it has nothing to do with it. But, as I said before, colors have had different things associated with them for centuries.

    Since black signifies only negative things, it does make sense that evil things are black, or dark colors. Since white is always associated with purity, and lighter colors other "good" traits, such as honor, courage, etc, it makes sense that good people/creatures/things are/have/wear light colored/colors.
     
  9. Sleek_Jeek

    Sleek_Jeek New Member

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    the racism part was mostly a joke, but not really, i think that color has anything to do with anything other than feng shui was probably a result of members of religious groups in the past suffering heavy brain damage...

    of course thats an exageration, but why should their dark skin signify that they are evil? as i stated, there is no given reason for their possession of this dark skin, and it wouldnt make sense for them to be harmed by light if they had dark skin, so what the hell is going on? and wouldnt they be a lot scarier if they completely lacked pigmentation? as in nothing but a slightly pale grey outer coating with full view of the veins closest to the surface of the epidermis? and large white pupilless eyes from thousands of years of sub terranian habitation?

    also, how great would it be if for once we had a realistic fantasy scenario like say, the "dark elves" were banished for having alternative religious beliefs and questioning the orthodox elvin church? or are the result of a forgotten penal collony under the planets surface? at least that would make more sense than all of the inherrently evil elves just suddenly deciding to live underground and worship satan while evolving black skin!!!!

    tell me black skin= evil isnt racist in any way

    and then you can tell me martin luther king jr. was a gay communist!
     
  10. LordCarlin

    LordCarlin New Member

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    Don't mean to diverge from the current subject, but one race that does exist in arcanum but isn't playable is the Bedokkian(sp?), those lizard-man type creatures. I should think it would be interesting to play them, though a whole new layer of dialog options would need to be created. That shouldn't be hard, after all one of them can join the party as an NPC/
     
  11. Sleek_Jeek

    Sleek_Jeek New Member

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    oh wait, may be the elves that were evil and black went underground so they wouldnt get thrown in san quentin and given :cyclops: syphillus :cyclops: by the CIA
     
  12. Ferret

    Ferret New Member

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    It's got nothing to do with racism. From a purely scientific standpoint there is no reason for them NOT to be black. Sure, if it was down to sunlight only then it would be true that they would most likely be light pink due to little or no melanin. However, there are dozens of other factors involved.

    Take moles. They have very thick black velvet fur covering their bodies and whilst it's true that most of their skin is pink, the parts of their bodies that are not covered by fur and that are exposed are dark grey/black in colour. However, they spend most of their time underground and only venture out at night to boot, so they never see the sun. It cannot therefore be assumed that all underground creatures are directed by sunlight alone.

    There are other reasons, like camouflage. What is harder to see in low ligt conditions than something that has no colour? Nothing. Even translucent beings are easier to see in the dark than black objects, since translucency distorts the light that does pass through it, whilst black objects absorb ALL light and thus there is nothing to see. The only way to see a black object is to compare it to the background it stands on. If there is no light for a comparison the black object is perfectly camouflaged.

    Also, Dark Elves, or the Drow especially from DnD are highly magical in nature. So much so that they have natural magic and magic resistance. What is to say that their skin colour is nothing to do with sunlight exposure, but some form of magical exposure instead? Have you ever thought that maybe they MADE themselves black for increased stealth? They wear black armour and clothing so why not make their skins dark? Over generations the magical alteration could easily have become permanent.

    Before you criticise the creations of other people based upon your own narrow perspective and outlook alone, try to reason through all the posible outlooks first so you don't look either stupid or fanatic. There are often many reasons for things, and not all of them are available for you to see when you make snap judgements.
     
  13. cameosis

    cameosis New Member

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    absolutely! a game is not a game without a troll. i play them exclusively (i started liking them back in the day when i played merp, a rolemaster p&p spin-off).
     
  14. cameosis

    cameosis New Member

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    as to the racism aspect: white and light colors are only positive in western (originally european) cultures, therefore it is a valid point: in eastern asian countries, white equates death and bad luck.

    and it is true that pigmentation mostly depends on exposure to the sun. not that i require accuracy, because if we accept all kinds of monsters and magic, why would we bother about inappropriate attribution of skin color?

    after all, who says that monsters have to be evil all the time, that is racist as well: the adventurers invade their dungeons and caves in order to loot their lairs. and so it goes.
     
  15. Ferret

    Ferret New Member

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    The point of my post is that it's NOT mainly to do with sun exposure. Not even in real life. I have a degree in Biology, I did skin pigmentation during my advanced level qualifications. I know what I'm talking about. Please don't argue after the facts have been stated. It's very tiring... :???:
     
  16. Sleek_Jeek

    Sleek_Jeek New Member

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    well since you have a degree in biology tell me that there werent many other options open, in morrowind the dark elves arent necessarily evil, but in the world created by TOR in the forgotten realms respect, if its black its bad... i'm not completely serious but i do think that this is a trend in fantasy culture that shouldnt be. so may be they would have skin pigmentation, but if they are so magical why didnt they just make themselves invisible?

    we could argue about this forever, but the main problem i see is that black equates to bad, whether or not this is racist is irrelevant, the idea that colors should represent anything is an archaic and superstitious idea
     
  17. cameosis

    cameosis New Member

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    please, don't try the degree approach: i have excessively studied biology back in my younger years. i know what i am talking about - it's not the fact, it's the interpretation thereof that is controversial, and i am just as entitled to an interpretation as you are.
    if disagreement tires you, i'm sorry ... but i'm not sorry.

    cheers.
     
  18. Ferret

    Ferret New Member

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    It's that statement which annoyed me. If you have studied biology as extensively as you claim ten you'd know that what you stated is wrong. Yes, sun exposure (or UV exposure to be more precise) does have an effect, by increasing the melanin concentrations in the skin, but it's not (by far) the greatest reason for skin pigmentation.

    Infact, the pigmentation has an overwhelming genetic factor and whilst long turn racial sun exposure has played a part in humans, in most other animals it has nothing to do with it what so ever.

    The main driving factor in skin pigmentation is simple survival. Something that cannot be spotted as easily as it's rivals is going to survive and pas on it's pigmentation. It can be shown that genetic changes due to predation can occur within as little as 30 years in certain species of insects through artificial selection of pigmentation phenotypes.

    Other major factors that outrank sunlight are simple chemical processes within the organism. Whether the organism contains certain natural chemical pigments, or whether it is to do with a reaction to the environment (for example, flamingos are white. They only appear red because of the fact that they nest and breed within the caustic lakes and this tints them pick).

    The facts of pigmentation have been proven time and time again, through genetic research, experimentation or simple observation of ecological processes. The IS no controversy over the interpretation of the facts. The facts are facts and they don't change over the wide variety of creatures that have been tested, from all five kingdoms.

    If you choose to ignore the facts and embark on some foundless idea of your own based upon some theory you have devised with no scientific background then that is fair enough. However, do NOT use it as a basis for argument!
     
  19. Lord Deker

    Lord Deker New Member

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    As Ferret stated there are so many reason of skin colour, there's tiring of arguing "Sun Exposure->Dark Skin". Even without a degree will know those reason.

    But in Arcanum, Dark Elf are light skinned as normal Elf. See the skin of your Dark Elf follower (I can't recall her name). As the game say they are seperated from the elven kind, and basicaly have no different with normal elf. And what makes them "evil" is their believe of superior than other races.

    So much talking is that I have a question in mind : How can normal people know a person is Elf or Dark Elf in Arcanum? For example, the Dark Elf in the Gentelman's Club is shown as "Dark Elf" before I talk to him!
    [/quote]
     
  20. Lord Deker

    Lord Deker New Member

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    As Ferret stated there are so many reason of skin colour, there's tiring of arguing "Sun Exposure->Dark Skin". Even without a degree will know those reason.

    But in Arcanum, Dark Elf are light skinned as normal Elf. See the skin of your Dark Elf follower (I can't recall her name). As the game say they are seperated from the elven kind, and basicaly have no different with normal elf. And what makes them "evil" is their believe of superior than other races.

    So much talking is that I have a question in mind : How can normal people know a person is Elf or Dark Elf in Arcanum? For example, the Dark Elf in the Gentelman's Club is shown as "Dark Elf" before I talk to him!
     
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