On the Races of Arcanum

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Ruda, Mar 19, 2013.

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  1. Ruda

    Ruda Active Member

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    Actually my thoughts are on dark elves in particular, but the discussion will probably (hopefully, that is) include other races as well.
    Having witnessed the rather unpleasant reactions to "grave digging" old threads, I dared not post in this one viewtopic.php?t=17292 , although I'd very much like to continue its discussion which was left mostly unfinished.

    The game itself is ambiguous on whether the difference between elves and dark elves is of biological or philosophical nature. Personally I believe the former to be true, mainly because the actual character sheet of your dark elf follower (and, I assume, that of any other member of her tree house) expressly states that she's a dark elf, but also because there would be little reason for two different philosophical branches using different racial icons.

    In the previous thread the manual appendix A-2: Races was presented as an authority on Arcanum's races, but to me it seems that the manual attempted to mirror the scientific racism and other pseudoscience of our 19th century. I mean, the fact that it's supposed to be written by a human who's claiming that all other races originates from humanity is a bit suspicious to me. (Not to mention that the "author" John Beddoes works for the Tarant University where phrenology and demonology are major subjects. The game let's us make fun of the honorable professor Gershwin in order to ridicule the institution.) The lack of mention the dark elves suffer from in appendix A-2 isn't sufficient evidence for them not being an actual race.

    Now, supposing that dark elves indeed are a race of their own, what do we make of their origin? I have this idea to offer:

    Human racial icon: crossed guns
    Elf racial icon: bow
    Half-elf racial icon: crossed bow and gun

    The same goes for the relation between humans, ogres (crossed clubs) and their half-ogre children (crossed gun and club); the relation between humans, orcs (crossed swords) and half-orcs (crossed sword and gun). Now consider the following.

    Elf racial icon: bow
    Orc racial icon: crossed swords
    Dark-elf racial icon: crossed bow and sword

    I'll leave you with that. Now I'm straight off to bed! Any thoughts?
     
  2. Drog Alt

    Drog Alt Member

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    Actually, the guns on the Human race icon are different from the Half-Elf, Half-Orc and Half-Ogre race icons. The half-bloods have a rifle instead of the pistol.

    I see it this way. The rifle symbolizes that the race is more 'civilized' (as in, closer to the ways of the modern pseudo-Victorian society of Arcanum) than their 'wild' counterpart, who mostly live in a secluded community. The (barbarian) sword (it's actually the Bangellian Scourge, but I guess this was mostly a random piece of concept art during the time the race icons were made) in the icons of Half-Orcs, Orcs and Dark Elves, on the other hand, symbolizes their 'wilder' and more 'violent' nature.

    So yeah, the Dark Elves are more 'wild' and 'violent' than your normal garden variety. Makes sense.

    I can predict your next question: what about the Half-Orcs? They have both the rifle and the sword. Yes, this is a great illustration of their dilemma. They're neither 'civilized', nor 'wild'. Neither humans, nor their ancestral community (Orcs) fully accept them.

    Makes perfect sense to me.
     
  3. manillungol

    manillungol New Member

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    I've always loved the cold hard truth in which the dwarfs and the elves viewed the humans as the spoiled brats of the universe because they didn't think long term because their lifespans were so short and never had to live to see the consequences of their actions, I also loved the bit about the dwarf thinking Gilbert bates would still be a "boy" rather than an "old man".

    On the subject of dark elves I've always viewed the differences as both Philosophical and Biological as their description falls perfectly in like with the dungeons and dragons Drow which troika had to have used as the basis, obviously gygax used elements from the traditional Norse and Tolkien elements but he took it much further with his own descriptions as well.
     
  4. Ruda

    Ruda Active Member

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    True, but they're both firearms making them stand out clearly next to the cruder weaponry used in the other icons.
    While your theory is both interesting and has a lot of explanatory power (in regards to the use of the rifle and the sword symbols), it does little to explain the ogre clubs. The full-blooded ogre is considered the orcs' equal (if not superior) in terms of wildness and violence. Why would they not share the sword in their icon? Sure, the club is just as good a symbol for the wild as the sword is, but why use two different ones (and why would dark elves use the sword in particular and not the club)? It is also somewhat confusing when compared to the elven bow symbol. Quintarran elves are just as uncivilized (I am, of course, using the term in the same way you do) as the orcs and ogres are. That would, according to your theory, be the reason for them lacking a rifle in their icon while their civilized half-elven cousins do use the rifle symbol. Why then, would the dark elves have to prove their uncivilized nature even further by using the symbols of two different races?

    Personally, I prefer the explanation that the symbols used are those weapons mostly associated with the different races. Most gunslingers are humans; most archers are elven; most orcs and ogres use crude weapons, such as swords and clubs; and dwarves are mostly associated with hammers. This is further supported by the gnome and halfling symbols which, if I'm not mistaken, are crossed daggers. I don't think there is a single gnome/halfing in the game who doesn't use a dagger in combat. If there are, they're not in the majority.

    Half bloods then, use one weapon from each parent. At least, that was what I thought before noticing the dark elf icon since they hardly could be the offspring of orc and elf parents. Or could they? The twin skulls from the conspiracy quest are evidence that the developers at least had the idea of orc and elf half-breeds in mind. Maybe the siamese twins were dark elves?
    This is very likely. If the icons were made early, it's possible that the dark elves were intended to be the offspring of orc and elf parents (I'm arrogantly assuming that my theory is the right one) but that this was changed later on, since their is absolutely no in-game suggestion that dark elves have orcish ancestry. It could even explain why the icon was missing from the vanilla version (they're restored in the UAP, right?), maybe it was intentionally removed. This doesn't explain the absence of the other two icons, those of orcs and ogres, so it's probably rationalizing nonsense...

    I haven't much knowledge of the D&D setting myself, but I've assumed that Arcanum's races are quite different from those of most other fantasy settings. The whole orcish proletariat and gnomish bourgeoisie antagonism is something I haven't seen anywhere in fantasy before or since. Again, I have next to no knowledge of D&D so I should at least know better than to question you...
     
  5. Gillsing

    Gillsing New Member

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    Re:

    Gilbert Bates said that Stennar should've realised that Bates had grown up, so I'm attributing the bit about "the boy" to the timeless nature of the void rather than the long life of dwarves. Or maybe Stennar was just a bit 'confused' in general, which would explain why he didn't bother mentioning the name of the big bad evil guy.

    D&D drow have black skin and white hair. That's the opposite of pale (ivory) skin:
    I guess that would make the Arcanum dark elves look a lot like Warhammer's dark elves.
     
  6. Drog Alt

    Drog Alt Member

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    Actually, the reason that Arcanum's Dark Elves don't actually have dark skin like their D&D or Elder Scrolls' counterparts is very simple and practical. The engine simply has no support for the palette swapping of this kind. The character's palette is decided by what kind of clothes/body armor (4 palettes for each type) it's wearing, there's no way to also account for the skin color. Of course, they could make them dark skinned only when naked, but that would be silly. And no, they couldn't include separate armor sprites for them, as it would eat a lot of disk space, which was pretty limited back in 2001. This is actually why the female Gnomes and Halflings couldn't be included as playable characters (they only had enough space to include the sprites for the plainclothes/dagger/handgun combos).
     
  7. Gillsing

    Gillsing New Member

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    Dark elves in Warhammer are pale, and the Riftwar dark elves look like other elves. So until I see a quote from the creators that says otherwise, I'm going to keep assuming that the Arcanum dark elves were always meant to be pale, much like the last one of the undressed male elves in the Edit list in WorldEd. And the reason why the dark elves did not end up that pale is of course the engine limitations you mention. :)
     
  8. manillungol

    manillungol New Member

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    I will agree the descriptions aren't the same but they share a lot of elements with what has previously been invented about dark elves, I wonder why they never decided to use different metals like mithril and adamantite too overused in other games?
     
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