A guy walks up to you in a bar....

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by jwh, Apr 20, 2010.

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  1. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    But if reality only exists in a state of reliable causality because enough people believe that's the way it should be, the mages are correct in assuming an infinitely malleable universe, which would place the technologists in the wrong. :monocle:
     
  2. Viktor_Berg

    Viktor_Berg New Member

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    Which would make quantum physicists in real life mages...
     
  3. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    It's true that by observing subatomic particles move, one is changing their behavior, but that doesn't make quantum physicists mages. They're just well informed. We can't directly control anything in the subatomic world. Well, that's a lie; we can make subatomic particles from photons by firing them directly into a dense nucleus. The photon disintegrates into an electron and a positron, and the positron inevitably turns into a photon once it hits an electron (the electron turns into a photon too).
     
  4. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    They might be wrong about the universe and so might scientists in our world. Scientific method begins with the assumption that reality has rules which we can learn. It is a leap of faith which seems to work, but that initial assumption cannot be proved scientifically. Maybe all this belief in an ordered universe is creating one.
     
  5. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    It is not a leap of faith, it is a conclusion based on empirical evidence.

    I swear, postmodernism destroyed this world.

    By the way, you have fifteen pairs of ears that are eternally flowing with purple vanilla ice cream and you also owe me $1000 which you must pay back now. Since there is no such thing as reality, my believing it makes it true!
     
  6. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    Conclusions are what happens when someone gets tired of thinking. For example, I conclude that you win and are right, while I am wrong.

    Nonetheless, that's my theory about magick vs technology and why both seem to have a field effect in arcanum.

    For the record, I believe in the scientific method, but it depends on being humble in the face of reality, rather than an absolutely certain asshole.
     
  7. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    I guess I'm just tired of this whole "THERE IS NO REALITY" bullshit I keep hearing all the time. If there is no reality, how could these people even have an opinion, or motivate one?

    Yeah, DE raging against social constructivism again.
     
  8. ytzk

    ytzk Well-Known Member

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    Cool. Peace, Dark Elf.

    I always like this story about it: Monk says to Novice, "What is the nature of reality?" Novice replies, "It is only an illusion." Monk says, "Oh really? So what's this?" And hits the novice around the side of the head. Case closed, reality is real.
     
  9. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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  10. RunAwayScientist

    RunAwayScientist Member

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    I think the onset of the Dark age sufficiently did that, many decades ago.


    Have you read any of Xenophon or Plato's works about Socrates, DE?
     
  11. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    To my regret I have not. The list of "Literature I really should read" grows exponentially every year I'm afraid. I've really only nibbled the Western canon in the edges.
     
  12. I Know All About Arcanum

    I Know All About Arcanum New Member

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    The outer world has no reality and is not real. The outer world is the world of change and decay. The inner world also has change and decay. But only in the inner world can we perceive immutable, eternal, necessary truths of logic and mathematics. The best life is one spent contemplating these truths.
     
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