RPG Question

Heh, as far as I'm concerned, Morrowind is Diablo in first person.
An action game with RPG elements.

I didn't want to play it for a long time, but picked it up anyway... Got really bored after a while because of lack of density. Everything is the same, the quests are simple - go to place A and kill monster B or pick up item C. Morrowind is HUGE, they went for quantity over quality. But hey, each has their own right?

 

WHAT THE FUCK?! Canis you'd be good diplomat, wouldn't you? You seriously destorted (yeah, online dictionary rulezzz) all I wrote! I ment no offense to Wolf and I will never insult him (except some EXTRA cases). You are wondering why, dont you? Cause I was nearly the same person when I was 13. (now I am 13 and half year old (don't believe me! all my words are lies! (heh, I love this paradox!) In truth am 78 years old, notoric liar (I know this IS little of my post(don't read it!(too late...(fuck those parenthesis!!!!(?)))))) I thought my opinion was something MORE, I thought, everybody were being underrestimated me and mainly my opinions. I thought: THEY ARE FUCKERS, NOT ME! MY OPINION IS ONLY TRUTH, AND BASTA FIDLY (infantil sk phrase, it means "no discussion")! Now when I see some wolfie's posts I can hear all things I said in that rebelious age. But wait people! Don't understand me wrong! This is not some "ANTI WOLF BULSHIT", like many those written by Canis. HEAR YE! I BRING YOU TRUTH! :-D Think about yourself! Why are ya enjoy insulting and flaming Wolfie? HOLY SHIT, LET HIM BE! And, Wolf for your own good, consider twice when are u going to post things, those can anger people on forum.

 

I dunno, i think Morrowind had a lot more atmosphere than diablo, and i always got that arcade feeling playing diablo, (i think i compared it to centipede and galaga a few posts back).

Morrowind was just so damned open ended, i cant see the diablo comparison. I mean, sure if you want to talk about combat I guess they were similar in that t was real time combat and there was only one character, but the environment of morrowind was much more unique. As for the dialogue I think it was a victim of the open ended gameplay. It would be a huge task to right a script for every situation with every npc, or even just the unique ones. The game would come with an extra install cd labeled "dialogue." Not that this is an excuse for boring dialogue, but I think the game makes up for it in sheer fun. Some of thebest things in life are good because they are flawed in my opinion.

 

since I started this mess....

current NEWBIE definition of RPG:

Any game were you can either;

a. equip items
b. raise levels
c. talk to people and have an option
d. the raising of stats through the game

Dicitionary definition:

role-playing game
n. A game in which players assume the roles of characters and act out fantastical adventures, the outcomes of which are partially determined by chance, as by the roll of dice.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

My definition (from MUCH time in the P&P days...including making my own...):

A social game were a group of people (including NPC's in video game RPG's) interact and evolve in an fantasy world, in effect becoming the characters.

Morrowing:

Deffinition a. Yes, an RPG...of course, by this logic, so is WC3...

Deffinition b. Yes...but barely....it depends if carrying a non discript object from point a to point b is a "fantastical adventure"

Deffinition c. No chance in hell....only a few video games can fit this catagory...a few MMORPG's...arcanum comes close...so does animal crossing on gamecube for that matter.

In closing, I know I'm only stirring that pot...but what can I say...I'm bored

and though I'll get flamed for this, homosexuallity isn't natural...one of the joy's of being human is being imperfect and the ability to contradict our natural behavior.

 

Jinxed, what the fuck? Diablo? Diablo: You choose a character and choose how to equip them and level them up. Morrowind: You choose a race, head, stats, you make your own character. I define an RPG as a game where you create a character, and play that game as your character would. The reason why you guys don't think MW is an RPG is because you don't roleplay. You can't expect the game to roleplay for you. Hell, if Morrowind had the same view as Arcanum you'd call it an RPG, wouldn't you?

 

Are you one of those folks who think Torment isn't an RPG but rather an "interactive novel"? Just curious.

EDIT: I see you decided, Wolf, or it was decided for you by one Power or other, that your "clever" response would be better off deleted. If you're still wondering, it's an actual question and a legitimate one that's occasionally debated on one forum or another. You don't create your own character, you're stuck in a predetermined role, you're not free to roam the Planes as you are Vvardenfell, you can't choose your hairstyle, and the NPCs (joinable and not) are somewhat limited in terms of clothing styles.

Who was it that called it an interactive novel? Volourn? Somebody like that, I haven't really been keeping up with things lately.

 

Haha, it's too bad all of the dozen or more attributes in morrowind don't mean shit since everyone ends up with READ: the same exact character over and over again. Fuck, at least in Diablo you had more variety.

We don't roleplay? Man, there is HARDLY any roleplay in morrowind.
Wolf, have you ever heared of something called "multiple ways to finish a quest"? In each RPG, we have many types of quests, but that's not the point, the point is that depending on who you are, and how you play, you can finish a quest in many ways... Does this ever happen in Morrowind? NO.
Most quests in Morrowind end up in some remote cave which you plunder, kill everyone and bring back an item. Hell, how many times do you want to do this? Sure, it's fun... For a while.

As each PnP player knows, the dm creates a quest and you can go for it, or leave it.
a) Use dimplomacy skills
b) Use thief skills
c) Kill everyone

Morrowind is C, C, C, and C again. Not much of an RPG if you ask me.

 

Hey, Jinxed maybe you should try knowing SOMETHING about a game before you bag it. In a Hlaalu quest you're sent to kill some guy's kwama queen you can...

a) kill it
b) blackmail the guy for money
c) blackmail and kill

in another hlaalu quest there aresome ebony mines someone wants shut down you can

a) kill the owner
b) sabotage using diplomacy
c) do both and get an extra REWARD

In a miscellaneous quest when a guy asks you to trade some weapons and armor and give him the money
you can
a) give the guy the money
b) leave the town, and when you come back the guy tries to kill you.

as you can see, it's not always c, c, c
I assure you there are much more cases of this. You can't expect a game to say
will you give him this or not?
you can't make the game rp for you.

The same xact character? that is not the game's fault, it's yours. there are so many different possible characters to make.It's not the games fault that you lack the imagination to create a different character

 

After reading this entire thread I notice that it did get slightly off topic a few times, yet I see no referances or mention of the Myst series.

I believe that the Myst series: Myst, Riven: a sequel to Myst, Myst III: Exile, and noe Uru: Ages beyond Myst, are without a doubt a must to play at least once (if not own) for any fan of the fantasy/roleplaying genre. I was captived by the first, and have been ever since intrigued by its simplistic difficulty. By simplistic difficulty, I mean that some of the puzzles are extremely easy to figure out. Yet getting them done can sometimes be very difficult. Usually you know what you need to do, yet figuring out the solution can be evasive.

For example: realizing that turning one of two knobs moves the hands of a clock, and later discovering that you are able to rotate a tower. After rotating the tower you climb it and notice the clock through a view hole. Opposite the viewhole in the tower you notice some writing stating a verse 2:40 and another couple digits. You then wander back to the clock, and begin turning the knobs. When the hands are in proper position stones appear from beneath the water. After crossing the stones, you see a series of rotating number scrolls, and remember the other numbers with the time you saw in the tower. Now trying to get the numbers to stop correctly may be very tricky. Upon completion you gain entrance to another Age (island in different time/world) to explore and solve!

I believe that this is the core idea to any good RPG. Although other RPG's can be entertaining, I feel that lack of such things as this have created cookie-cutter games, with little more than hack and slash-kill the baddies-win battle-gain items-save world type of plot and/or story.

Flame me if you will, but I believe that a good RPG, one with depth, challenge, replayability, and good story/plot. A true RPG! Is a very hard thing to find today.

 

I actually agree with mr wolf here. There are tons of quests where you can complete it by one of all three options. Play through using thieving skills, as i do in almost every rpg i play (minus fallout, fallout only had options diplomacy and kill everyone.)

But seriously, there are so many non-obvious dialogue solutions to quests in morrowind, and it should be obvios how well thieving is implemented in this game. Just because a dialogue solution is poorly, or generically written doesnt mean its not a viable option. Perhaps you guys just didnt have the patience to not kill everyone because you couldnt find the right person to talk to/didnt like reading the dialogue.

In conclusion, go do some thieves guild quests.

 

If homosexuality isn't natural, then how come animals like monkeys and sheep sometimes have male/male or female/female sex? Did we humans corrupt 'em or something?

 

Just because other animals do it it doesn't make it natural. An don't post any of that homosexual shit here pleae, we're trying to have a debate.

 

Umm, no, that's the fault of the character system. Are you serious in trying to tell me that by the end of the game you can come up with a totally unique character? You max out all the skills, and become a jack of all trades. And your petty attemps at creating an illusion of being a master RPG gamer is not getting to me, keep 'em coming with the witty "lack of imagination" remarks, Mr. Wolf.
At the begining of the game the variety of the character system is clearly visible. But as the game goes underway, this variety slowly fades.

Yes, it's been a while since I played the game, so I missed the 5? Quests that actually let you complete them in multiple ways.
Compare Morrowind to Fallout or Arcanum, and you're in for a world full of pain. ToEE does well in comparison, the game is based mostly on combat, the actions you do and quests you complete don't really impact the gameworld. However, it's still better, since the player can make use of thieving abilities to complete quests.

A simple example... You get to the moathouse... You can sneak by the frogs, but I'm not sure if you can sneak without being noticed by the bringads outside. Once inside, you can use diplomacy to get past the initial guards, and sneak again into Lareth's chamber and let him join or kill him... Sneak back out. This simple example, just one point in the entire game surpasses all of Morrowinds GREAT variety.

One more thing, can you be evil in morrowind? Or do you always end up killing the bad guy? Mulitiple ways.. again. It's not just about using ones abilities, but making choices that impact balance in the gameworld. You can aid the good guys initially, but end up doing an evil deed. Funny dialogs can pop up, you can switch sides at your own leasure, tempted by magic items or money. Can you do this in Morrowind?

It doesn't really matter what arguments are put forward, he made up his mind and that's that. I'm betting someone in his family had fun with the neighborhood stranger in his van with the magic dancing lights. Hence the homophobic gruge.

 

RPJ, The Myst series is NOT RPGs. They are Adventure games of the old style, they are much more like King's Quest than Fallout.

 

I'm not a homophobe, to all you fucking dumbasses that think I am. I told you numerous times that I had nothing against gays, I just think it's unnatural. It's like using condoms. That's unnatural, but I have nothing against it. As for your five quests comment, I'm afraid your solely mistaken. I thought those up really quickly, and there are so many more. Also, the alignment system in Arcanum annoyed me, as the quests that give you a good alignment are always the ones most beneficial to the PC. For instance, the Arbalah quest. I do it bad. I get shit all except experience. I do it the good way I get a +5 reaction and experience. I think we can tell which is better. I"m afraid the only way you could get that uber character would be if you used training, and tht's plain easy. If you find it too easy, try playing a monk-like character on 100 difficulty.

 

Please, back track a bit,

And now you're explaining you have nothing against homosexuals? Geeze. It's like: "Hey, I have nothing against gays, but shut the hell up you god damn faggot fuck". Yeah, surely you have absolutely nothing against homosexuals.

Your example of Arbalah, guess what, when you do something evil to a good person, they usually don't like it. Being evil is bad - Expect wealth in return, not someone's sympathy. In Arcanum, NPCs can dislike you for extreme aligments, if you are evil, people may even attack you on the streets, but that's what you get for being a well known villain... And you do impact the gameworld in someway since NPCs recognise you for who you are.
I like the options to be present in an RPG, it works for the replay value and it does add to the general RPG-ness of the game.

 

Ok, first of all, I understand now that the fact that I'm not a homophobe is confusing for you, Jinxed. I don't see what was so homophobic about what you quoted, but I suspect you mean the shit part. It's common knowledge that "shit" is a slang substitute for "stuff". So lets see what's so offensive in my post. Hmmm...Nope, nothing. As for that Arbalah stuff, I guess you're right. I did get wealthy. Man his robes are valuable. What I'm saying is, just because my characters is smart enough to realise that that Arbalah can bless him seeing as a priest, it doesn't make him god. Just like if I were evil and went to the shrouded hills gate. My character may just not want to waste his time and slaughter Lukan and his goons, but that doesn't make him good. Yet when you complete the quest you get a positive alignment.

 

Hey, Dark ELf it's called roleplaying. What if my character would slaughter Lukan the very instant he asked for a toll. What if I just killed him anyway? My character might be a ticking timebomb waiting for any excuse to blow. So therefore, by your logic, being extremely evil and sadistic makes me good. Am I the only person who's confused?