What if....

Discussion in 'Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum' started by rroyo, May 26, 2009.

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  1. No! Naughty dog!

    No! Naughty dog! New Member

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    This post is more for my own benefit, because I had a little difficulty understanding Archmage's idea completely, And when that happens I tend to break things up and try and understand it piecemeal.

    Bronwyck's gun has magical potential due to newspaper reference, schematic text and components.

    This signifies Vendigroth experimenting with the nature of magic and technology.

    The one experimenting was working based upon earlier schametics.

    The Industrial Council/Tulla are trying to hush the existence of the gun and the notion that it could be possible.

    Whilst continuing the research themselves.

    And to start the the quest you have to have the schematic when you leave the Isle of Despair.

    Have I got that right?

    The people behind the conspiracy will have to have knowledge of the time when Vendigroth stood, I don't think the Industrial Council would, unless it is just a couple of the members who have conducted research in the matter (this could be tied to the guy that is in the Roseborough Inn, and possibly meet him at the Vendigroth Ruins).

    Furthermore they would have to have knowledge of the schematic, which I think would be unlikely that they would allow it to be left there as I presume it could really help the research it has been suggested that they're conducting. Perhaps the source of their information is the recently rescued Isle of Despair dweller(s) as there are 3, 2 directly and 1 indirect rescues from there.

    Perhaps we could have some Vendigrothan newspaper references to the experiments maybe some derisive articles about usng magic in a technological environment and experiments.

    Further information into the earlier schematic could be rather than weapon based have some other utility kind of use and the Vendigrothan experimenter's progress with the idea was making it in weapon form, his motive for doing so could have been inspired by that a good deal of technology was inefficient against magical things coupled with fear of Arronax's threats.

    I can only see Tulla being involved in the case of hushing the whole thing over as they view technology as a 'taint'. Perhaps a member of the Industrial Council is trying to create a magic/technology weapon and someone in Tulla is trying to eradicate and hush it all, this could present a fork in the quest similar to the keeping or destroying of the Bagellian Scourge. this coulld be related to the prize of the quest, you could recieve a non-tech, non-magic gun or a magical item for destroying the item.

    Though some of these ideas feed back into what was the living one like and what did they do and makes assumptions.

    If any of this seems like me trying to shoot the idea down, it is not, I'm just pointing out things I feel we need to work around. I very much like the idea ^^
     
  2. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    I like this idea. I am, however, less sure about coming across this conspiracy due to a find on Despair. Since there's no means of communication between the island and the mainland, how would the thugs know to meet you in Ashbury?
    The initial triggering event needs to be either in Tarant or Ashbury I think.
     
  3. No! Naughty dog!

    No! Naughty dog! New Member

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    Perhaps you could get approached by a Tarantian journalist who thought the idea of someone actually wanting to go to the Isle of Despair would make a good story (actually thinking it would end up in the island captives stealing the boat and escaping, which you find out in a newspaper that was published in your absence)

    Perhaps the journalist could talk to you after overhearing you talk to a ship captain about reaching the Isle of Despair

    Upon your return you could talk to him again and if you give him details of the visit

    That could be the trigger to be accosted by some Tullan representative in one of the cities or maybe in an encounter, like kerghan masquerading as Arronax does, but with less fatigue smashing. This could be a point a charismatic or intelligent character could convince them to allow you to join their cause

    Perhaps Victor Wright (Tarantian editor) is looking for someone to investigate some rumours, that will lead you to the Industrial Council side of the idea

    I realise I overuse certain words... like perhaps for instance
     
  4. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    BTW, magical gun inventor and Bronwyck's Gun, I wonder when we will come to a conclusion, that the second actually has a demon enhancing it's powers.
    I am somewhat suprised how I never connected the mithril plate required to build BG with anything magical. It propably was not intended, but still it's a good idea to use.
    Possibly Thorwald Two Stones and Cynthia. Were there any other rescues?
    No. This man is not neutral. Remember what we've learned from the original X-Files quest. Wright is the Council's bitch.

    It could be a Tarantian journalist, as long as it a freelancer, not consulting his report with Wright before there are finished. This journalist would not be aware about the machinations of the council, and once he would hear from the player about them, we would have to decide which side to betray, the player representing truth (in which case the report would never appear), or his bosses (in which case he would propably have to withdraw from his Tarantian career and become a part of the conspiracy disclosing fellowship). This could require some talking, but not necessarily charisma/persuation, so that every character could continue the plot.

    OK, here are some ideas on the new plot:

    The council (or some other organisation) is at least patly aware of Vendigroth. They may have their excavations in the wastes, just in a different place(s) that the "normal" ruins (after all, Vendigroth as a city is mentioned to once be as large as the current desert).

    The mastermind: The whole thing is of course is extremely top secret, it may be even not known it the whole council, being a secret of some inside group of few members. Or, this organisation would appear to be not connected to the council at first, but it would appear that the shady mastermind behind in sunlight is actually a respectable member of the council. He multiplies power and funds oficially, he menages his Vendigroth operations from the shadow and plans how he will take over the world when enough power and weaponry is gathered. More or less, you get the picture.

    I'm not sure on this one (never looked too deep into his story), but I'll give it a try. We know how Tollo Underhill was in Vendigroth, but it wasn't explained why he was there in the first place, and no one goes there without a reason. He could be a mercenary hired by the council to bring something from the more risky parts of the ruines, and once he did, they "disposed" of him.

    When I heard that I thought the same thing as you rroyo. But after a short while a possible rationalisation came to my mind (I'm still thinking about mixing the Half-Ogre quest with magic-tech one). There is a theory that the real Half-Ogre Island is one of the small islands next to the Isle of Despair. If so, it means that the people involved have their ships cruising in that area. Accidently on one of the cruises someone could spot how on the Shades Beach there's a mysterious high-tech looking machine and a stranger (the player) in the area. They decided to make a change of course and head for the beach. Before they got there, the player already disappeared. The council (or the group interested in magic-tech weaponry) decided to "shelter" the machine and make sure to catch the person they saw since he could take some of the invaluable technology with him. That's why the player encounters half-ogre thugs when he returns to Ashbury.

    I have to admit that I'm a bit tired at the moment (and so was when writing this) so I hope the post is not too problematic to be understood. Some ideas are rough, some are only mentioned and waiting for extension, but I'm sure everything can be nicely explained and connected.
     
  5. No! Naughty dog!

    No! Naughty dog! New Member

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    The freelance journalist could be good, maybe it could be a journalist from a press that is just starting up and is trying to contend with the Tarantian?

    Maxamillian the indirect rescue by telling Lianna.

    I thought it was an imposter, sorry my mistake if not.

    Couldn't Tollo have gone with the living one though? and I don't remember too well but wasn't he affiliated with K'an Hua

    I think I'm going to play through again now
     
  6. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I was thinking about something like that. Fresh blood, a man full of enthusiasm and ideals, thinking he can change the world and not aware how corrupted are the very people he wants to work for.

    Ah yes, how could I forget about him.
    Well, as for them being a source of information for the council:
    Thorwald: Wouldn't just babble about the Island with anyone. Not to mention how he would be unreachable for the council, since after he wanders with the living One to the Wheel Clan, he most propably will stay there for a while, homesick and all.
    Maximillian: Another man keeping to himself. And one who is rescued by Cumbria's best warriors with Lianna along them. And after that, he will be in Dernholm, fighting for the throne, which is rightfully his. Being in Dernholm (Tarant is not very welcome around there), sorrounded by his soldiers and being tough himself, he is out of the question as a leak.
    Cynthia: Ah yes, the weak spot. She could be careless enough to actually tell someone about the Isle and what happened there, and sooner or later it could reach the councils ears. Lets face it, she doesn't want to betray the Living One/the survivor, yet torture would make her squeel. Yet Cynthia would propably know little to nothing about any schematic or technology, so she wouldn't be a useful source of information, assuming that she even gets to the mainland (instead of ending up in the IoD women camp).


    Tollo could go with the Living One. But that would be assuming the LO is evil, which we won't.
    Again I'm not sure (I didn't pay that much attention to the little bastard), but I believe it is just said he was in Vendigroth, but never is explained why. Tollo is familiar with the name K'uan Hua, so he obviously knows him from "that" side and worked for him in the past, but it was not stated that he worked for him any way recently. If I am mistaken and it was K'an Hua who send him to the wastes this plot device of course drops out. But if his journey to Vendigroth was really unexplained, we could make him a mercenary hired by the council and his actions could be used somewhere in the game plot.[/quote]
     
  7. Archmage Orintil

    Archmage Orintil New Member

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    That never actually crossed my mind. Some other possible trigger events could be as early as Shrouded Hills when the character repairs the steam engine with the Ancient Gear they find in the Bessie Toone mine. This would force the story point that the Living One destroyed the steam engine to begin with in order for you to fix it, but another excuse for it needing fixed could pop up. Also, as mentioned above, the journalist in Roseborough could also be the trigger event. That was what I originally thought of, but I figured that was too late in the game. Another possibility is mutiple triggers for advancing various stages of the plot. First one being in Shrouded Hills, the second when returning (or even during, via a spy with the ship crew) from the Isle of Despair, third one in Roseborough.

    I always thought it a bit weird that the mithril sheet text is blue like magickal item text.
     
  8. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Are you certain you're not talking about Jason C. Guy, the mage-scientist who has a theory about eras of great magic and great technology apparing by turns? Because the journalist was just there to get a photo of the Lethe Wyvern and has propably as much to do with magic-tech weaponry as anyone can.
    Also remember, that he appears late in the original game, but for the second survivor city progress can be completely different.

    It's the same reason why kadura stem is marked as a technological item. It isn't technological by itself, yet it makes a great ingredient for one.
     
  9. Archmage Orintil

    Archmage Orintil New Member

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    I mixed the two guys up.
     
  10. Omnuscraft

    Omnuscraft New Member

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    Are we still tossing around ideas? I came across this thread while eating a Klondike bar and installing WIP for another play through.

    If we are still tossing around ideas, let me know. I have a good one cooked up, despite having concocted this mess at 4:30 in the morning.
     
  11. Yuki

    Yuki Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we are. put it here. I'm looking forward to it.
     
  12. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    If you've got an idea, let's hear it. :)
     
  13. Omnuscraft

    Omnuscraft New Member

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    Well, I have two ideas actually. One expands on the whole Molocean hand agent idea.

    My idea takes place a certain time after the event of Arcanum. I have dubbed this idea as Arcanum: Rise of the Defilers.

    There is a seperate sect of the Molocean Hand called the Defilers. You are a Defiler in training. Your home was attacked by bandits or some such bad guys with guns/sword/magic/whatever. Due to the tragedy, you do not remember your childhood or parents. The leader of the bad guys took pity on you and took you in and trained you as an Assassin. During your training, you become close to your tutor, like some weird father figure...thing. He also lets you in on his "plan". The plan he calls Operation: Vertigo.

    Your first mission is to assassinate some important political or military figure. You go about your merry way, doing the (hopefully new) side quests and you meet this important person. This important person recognizes you and tries to convince you that the Molocean hand is bad. You end up killing him, but you're lost and confused, so you go back to your tutor or leader and you explain to him what the important guy said and the tutor tries to kill you.

    You meet a companion who finds you, wounded and dying, and you set about finding out who you are and stopping The Rise of the Defilers. You meet lots of people who are victim to the Molocean's and the Defilers evil plots who join you. You fight different agents of the Molocean's, discover the true plan of the Defilers and the whole thing culminates in a showdown between you and your former master who has become ultimately powerful from confusing some powerful artifact/unlocked some powerful magic or is just some evil strong bastard who wants to destroy the world and remake it. It could have lots of twists and turns.

    It sounds good in my head, but down on paper (or monitor in this case) it sounds...different, and probably very difficult. I would love to see this come to life, but the details are sketchy at best right now, but I thought this sounded really cool.

    This is a VERY rough idea but I'd like to discuss more of the details at length if you guys enjoy my idea.

    Some of the interesting twists could be a Molocean Hand/Dernholm partnership, finding out your parents were part of the Molocean Hand who tried to stop your master's evil plan and were killed, the group they formed to combat the Hand and the Defilers.

    Or how bout a Molocean Hand base on the Isle of Despair? Or how bout an attack on Tarant or Caladon? We could see a return of some familiar faces, and some familiar places attacked and ransacked. Tulla being attacked and looted for powerful magical artifacts maybe? :)
     
  14. No! Naughty dog!

    No! Naughty dog! New Member

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    Whilst this thread is manly based around a second survivor I would be very interested in hearing more about this idea, though a touch clichéd in part I think your idea could warrant its own thread. Something to note with your idea though is that you've decided the player's background. Perhaps the this story could be based around could be a follower (like Virgil's little thing in Caladon and after Quintarra but an actual full on quest)
     
  15. Omnuscraft

    Omnuscraft New Member

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    I did not think about that. That's a pretty good thought, though it would need something to tie the main character into the story.

    And yes, I agree with the cliche part of your post. I was typing it, and I read it back to myself and thought, "This sounds cheesy" and almost didn't post it.

    How about, you've been targetted for unknown reasons by the Molocean Hand/Defilers and your would-be assassin has second thoughts and ends up himself targetted by the Hand?

    Or, you meet your friendly assassin whom joins you after you've just "saved him" from something and he leads you into a trap down the road, but at the last second decides to save you and join you for real/ask for your help. Perhaps you end up in Black Root/Dernholm/Tarant and witness him being attacked and you save him. There would need to be some reason you end up going to one of those cities of course. Perhaps Going to find the origins of a ring? :p

    This is all very rough, as you can tell.
     
  16. No! Naughty dog!

    No! Naughty dog! New Member

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    Perhaps you could encounter the assassin in the same type of situation as the dog (getting attacked)
     
  17. Omnuscraft

    Omnuscraft New Member

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    On a completely different side note, I've played through the game SO many times, and I only ever got Dog in my party once. I was a little bummed out I could never get him to appear again. :/
     
  18. No! Naughty dog!

    No! Naughty dog! New Member

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    Well the assassin could misinterpret the Molochean hand order to kill survivors as an order from the Defilers and tries to put a wrench in their plans only to find out it is unrelated and the order actually came from Gideon Laier
     
  19. Omnuscraft

    Omnuscraft New Member

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    Maybe Gideon is being manipulated from someone higher up in the Hand or the Defilers and he ends up getting killed because he knows too much. He could end up an informant for the player and end up getting killed when you start to get too close.
     
  20. No! Naughty dog!

    No! Naughty dog! New Member

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    I thought Gideon was the top man in the Molochean hand? or am I just misinterpreting the meaning of him being the first blade?

    This quest could expand into the actual hierarchy and workings of the Molochean Hand I suppose
     
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