What if....

Discussion in 'Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum' started by rroyo, May 26, 2009.

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  1. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    I'm posting this here as a discussion rather than a full-blown plan.

    On January 28, 2009 The_Bob wrote:

    Arcanum main-game expansions do tend to do that. So why not change the set-up?
    Create a new game.... or..... convert the A:WIP hack from expansion to game-replacement.

    Friday morning, while I was idly bouncing a few ideas around, I had a thought hit me that refuses to die down:
    What if there was a second blimp crash survivor who was either buried so deeply inside the wreckage that he went unnoticed or was mistaken for dead? And – What if the main quest was the Half-Ogre conspiracy?

    What would a second adventure running concurrently with the original game be like?

    The set-up, being based on the idea above, would start the game 24 hours later.
    The second survivor has gotten to his or her feet and meets a possible companion.
    Virgil and the Living One have already left the scene and are on their way towards their destinies. They are out of the picture.
    The ring and the Dark Elf conspiracy doesn’t exist as far as you know.
    The Malochean Hand still has orders to leave no survivors but they are soon aware you’re not the primary target.
    When you get to Tarant, Arthur Tyron starts you on the path to solving the mystery of the half-ogres.
    The trail would include Half-Ogre Island and the fake newsman, of course.
    The new main quest would culminate in either the exposure of the Industrial Council, your buy-off, or your death.


    The potential problems with setting this up would be legion – beginning with stripping the original main quest from the game and rescripting the NPCs, to new situations that would allow for existing locations like the BMC, Qintarra, and Despair to be reused – or if they even should.
    Included in the headache list is, how many (and which ones) of the original side-quests get left in?


    I’d really like to discuss this.
     
  2. Yuki

    Yuki Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the conspiracy would make much of a good main quest, to be honest. You can't compete with Troika's story writing, and it was left 'unfinished', to give you that conspiracy feeling. To finish it, or elaborate upon it kinda ruins it for me.
     
  3. Xz

    Xz Monkey Admin Staff Member

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    Well, then simply don't play it Yuki. Personally I like the idea.

    As for reusing the existing locations, I think new side quests involving them would do the trick. On the matter of the original side quests, I'm leaning to leaving them all intact. Sure that doesn't bring about much change in the game. However seeing as you're just one day delayed, there's a fair chance the NPCs still need their quests taken care of.
     
  4. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    I miss Kaga... :sniff:

    It's an interesting idea, I give you that. I'm just not sure if it would be as great in practice. The whole Half-Ogre conspiracy is quite big for a quest, but it may appear to be a little small for the main plot.
    It would be hard to fit into the already existing Half-Ogre conspiracy quest. We would never find the Re'nar skulls (or we would recieve them after Tyron got them and before he died, which in game wasn't too long), we would either visit the HO factory without taking the journal (how stupid would that be), or we would visit the factory after the Living One was there, and it's important that all of the equipment dissappeared after his visit, so there wouldn't be that much to see. And so on. It would either be assuming that the Living One never started the quest, or far-fetched fitting into the whole situation. What's your guess, rroyo?

    On a side note, it would be interesting if the whole new main plot would be performed a little different - the second Living One's disclosure of the Council will be nearly successful, but at the end it would go drastically downwards, there would be some culminating point at the ending in which the second Living One leaves the scene nearly dead, awere of his failure, leaving nothing behind except for a crumpled note saying "The crow is in danger". Just a bit of fanfiction. ; )
     
  5. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    Xz: You and I are on the same page concerning original side-quests and travelling to existing locations. There would be a place or two that would be left out do to the lack of a valid reason, but most locations could be recycled easily enough.

    Yuki and Muro: Ok - I'm willing to concede that the Half-Ogre conspiracy could and probably would be a weak main quest - even if you added all the expansion ideas put forth in the A:WIP thread.

    Although the unfinished business has its fans, the majority of people who have piped up about it are in favor of some kind of resolution.
    Perhaps if a way for a sharp-eyed player to pick up the thread again (spotting the fake newsman at the docks was one idea) could be scripted in, then you could have endings to satisfy both camps.

    Definately a sticky situation. Going with the assumption that the Living One never started the Half-Ogre quest seems to be the easiest way to go. That would also assume the Living One was your terminal do-gooder who would never waiver from his main objective. Too many assumptions and too much forcing of an alternate storyline....
    I know I'd like to see the conspiracy remain in place, but I'm unsure how to realistically do that with a concurrent game.

    So - that creates the problem of a new main quest.
    RPG's need something to drive them on. An ultimate goal that decides the fate of that particular world. In this case - What kind of situation would make a survivor of a wrecked blip want to travel to the far corners of the world and back again?

    Doing a rehash of Arcanum 1's main quest sounds a bit lame to me.
    Destruction of the Malochean Hand? That sounds even weaker than the Half-Ogre. It could work as a major side-quest but not the primary.
    Exposing another of the Dark Elves' plans? It would give the Misk family a role in this, give a reason to visit T'sen Ang, but - what could match the Dark Elves' manipulations in Arcanum 1?
    The Industrial Council trying to take over the world? We're right back to the Half-Ogre thing again.


    Other ideas - please.
     
  6. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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    Finding the sods who shot down the blimp would be a good start!! *chuckle*

    How about...
    * Attempting to prevent (or cause) war between Tarant and Caladon?
    * Tracking down someone who was on the blimp when it left but wasn't there when it crashed? *twilight zone music*
    * Murder mystery! I love a good whodunnit.
    * A different path with the same eventual destination - two survivors of the crash, two Living Ones, two people with the same destiny. What if the first Living One falls at the last hurdle, unable to enter the Void?

    Just some thoughts.
     
  7. DarkFool

    DarkFool Nemesis of the Ancients

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    I think I'd rather a re-vamp of the quest itself, and leave the main quest intact. I'd love to see the storyline for HO completed. Also Yuki, Rroyo may not be able to compete with Troika's writing*, but perhaps, as a community, we can? We know Xiao has a talent for words, and myself and a few others have claimed to. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm more than willing to help Rroyo with this, no matter what direction he goes.



    *No offense Rroyo. I'm going with what she said, not providing commentary upon your writing.
     
  8. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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    Um, DF, if you ever volunteer me for more work again I will rip your balls off with MY BARE HANDS. I'm too overworked to help anyone, even though I normally would.

    Between classes and my own project it's a wonder I even get to sleep.
     
  9. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    Well in terms of the new main quest, you could also touch on why you were on the blimp in the first place. As for the starting a day after, I do recall telling the sheriff in Shrouded Hills about the blimp and they send a search team. Perhaps you are recovered in that crash and wake up in Doc Robert's infirmary. Also what if there was an option of running into the Living One at some stage in the game where you can in the end choose to help him or perhaps in a strange twist buy your freedom fro the Molochean Hand pursuers by taking out the Living One, only to betrayed by them.

    Another twist could be you start off as a member of the Molochean Hand and have been given the charge of taking out the Living One only to uncover kerghan's plot.
     
  10. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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    I'd play that. It would be freakin' cool.
     
  11. papa_dog_1999

    papa_dog_1999 Well-Known Member

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    Zanza has some good ideas.
    I had forgotten that Shrouded Hill was going to send a rescue mission to look for survivors.
    If you were buried under debris, the Living One and Virgil wouldn’t find you, even if they did choose to look for survivors.
    Of course, you’ll be pretty broken up and almost dead when they found you, but that's what good ol' Doc Roberts is for.

    We could be dogging the Living One all over the world and never now it.
    Even interact with him/her.
    "Hey, you survived! I didn't see you!"
    "Look harder next time, asshole!"
    Or something like that.

    And DF may not be volunteering you, Xiao.
    He might just be stating the inevitable.
    If this comes to pass and a call goes out for writers, you just might not be able to resist, inspite of your RL load.
     
  12. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    None taken.

    Let's see now-

    Waking up in Doc Roberts' place... This could be a viable set-up. The game would start off a bit slow but that's common enough in RPGs.

    Two people - Same outcome - What would set you on the path to finding Bates in the first place?
    Finding the Living One near death and unrevivable - like Kendrick Wales in Ashbury - and learning about the ring from him? We're right back to playing the same game.

    Being an undercover Hand agent - It is a cool idea and might allow for a rehash of the main game without being too chincy.
    Pehaps you are reminded of your mission by the gnome, kill the Living One and Virgil somewhere quiet (Bessie Toone mine?), and upon reporting in, one or more Hand agents attempts to kill you (you are seen as expendable), which starts you on your way to learning the truth.
    On the downside, I can see this quickly becoming just a No-Virgil version of same old game.

    A murder mystery - It would take something major to work with a game the size of Arcanum. Even if it included the destruction of the Malochean Hand, I'm not sure it would be enough.

    Tracking down someone who was on the blimp when it left but wasn't there when it crashed - That would be another tough one to maintain for a main quest.

    Stopping or starting a war - Here's one that's has possibilities for an entirely new game. Perhaps the Dark Elves are planning to pit Tarant and Caladon against each other to ultimately destroy the two kingdoms' industrial bases, thus making "Arronax's" rule over the continent that much easier. This could be linked back to the Two People - One Outcome thought.

    Another idea - An old idea that came up when I first started tinkering with WorldEd was the Void Rescue.
    http://www.terra-arcanum.com/phpBB/view ... hp?t=12857
    Nuts - As a main quest it wouldn't work worth a damn for the dumb characters.
     
  13. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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    Not what I actually meant. I mean the second 'Living One' finds themself following different trails, a wildly different path that eventually leads them to the Ring of Brodgar and their dying compatriot. Just because Living One number One (heh) took one of the major clues doesn't mean they got all of them. Maybe Living One number Two (heh) follows the clues of the ogres and the flying machines, going to Tarant only as a step on the path to Caladon, etc, etc...
     
  14. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    No.
    I thought about it too, but than thought some more and came to a conclusion, that no. There are too many paths the Living One can follow. His gender, race, evil/good allegiance, magick/tech aptitude, worn armour, possesed intelligence and character, and so on. No matter what version of the first Living One would be encountered, he/she would always be dissapointing and seem not right for most of the players.


    I don't think that the Dark Elves actually have any manipulations apart from bringing Arronax back to Arcanum. They are so blindly obsessed with him that they don't think about what will happen after his come back. They propably believe, that he is strong enough to subordinate whole Arcanum with the power of his magick alone. Pretty much anyone knowing about the situations thinks so.
     
  15. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    Xiao_Caity: Got it now.
    (I need to stop posting before the coffee kicks in...)

    Muro Lightning: Belief in Arronax's power... Now that you mention it..... But still, someone as scheming as Min would have contingency plans in place just in case such-and-such event didn't go exactly as it should.
     
  16. Zanza

    Zanza Well-Known Member

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    Hmm I see where you are going Muro, however if meeting the Living one was not a major part of the story, you know just an option that you may come across which would then lead you down a different path, example being meeting Nasrudin or the fellow in the Panarii. I don't know how hard that in itself would be however if you were then able to implement a code where the Living One's race and personality are random so chances are you will not receive the same Living One each game, I think like most RPGs you may not like the decision but RPGs do through in twists and turns where you may not usually go.
     
  17. Xz

    Xz Monkey Admin Staff Member

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    You find the living one, and Nasrudin killed at the ring of Brodgar. Problem solved. Further main quest objective: find an alternate way to the void.
     
  18. rroyo

    rroyo Active Member

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    OK - I've puzzled out a way to create a second Vendigroth Device - You find schematics (multi-step build) in the lab and from there it gets complicated.
    Another way into the Void sounds a bit more challenging.
    Should it be a magick or technological way in?

    Magick - There's a couple, three mages somewhere who have enough combined power to do the job? Or perhaps a long-hidden portal.

    Tech - This would be the coolest but.... The Stargate you see in the Void is facades, not scenery. There's no way to trigger it to make it appear on cue.
    Just a thought - If a suitable movie/TV Stargate picture could be found (3-D art preferably), converting it into Arcanum .art isn't too difficult and would allow scripted turn-ons. One of Bates' engineers or another master inventor could "construct" the device at Brodgar.
    For that matter, it wouldn't have to be a Stargate - something like this would work, if a brighter image was available (outdoor lighting...).

    http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o314/rroyo/misc/baldurs-gate-wallpaper_003.jpg
     
  19. Xz

    Xz Monkey Admin Staff Member

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    I think there should be one magic and one tech way. And if your magic or tech aptitude is high enough, you can't use the other one.

    Three mages in tulla perhaps?
     
  20. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Remember to make the Living One blown to pieces/disfugered so that there would be a visable corpes, yet no visible genfer or species. And leave a note "I was the Living One". OK, forget the note, but once the second Living One approaches the two corpses, a dialogue could open in which he/she would say to himself "I remember that face... It would be hard to forget. I think I saw that person on the IFS Zephir! Don't know who's the elf in the strange pyjamas though" or something like that, you get the picture.
    Zanza, I think even the random thing won't be good, it would end in similar results.

    Second Vendigroth Device: The schamatics in the ruins and ingredients all over the most obscure places in Arcanum can make the plot long even if the quest appears quite early. Both Fallouts were based on finding just one piece of technology, after all. :D

    Tech way to get to the Void: The ones helping Kerghan were dwarves. Maybe they didn't get their idea by themselves, but tieur to recreate an old forgotten technology, created by some isolated clan, or even the Iron Clan. Eric Obsydian would be a translator of ancient dwarven language, while Maxim/Bates/one of Bates engineers/some other good tech fellow and the player would form a team to construct the damn thing.

    Magic way to get to the Void: I would say that those three mages shoulsn't be in Tulla (it would be to quick for a solution), but it would be Tulla where the player would find hints on how to find them (Peloijan is the answer. Has always been). They would be some descendants of the Elven Council members, which had shreds of wisdom about banishing, but together could make it actually work. There could also be a quest to retrieve K'an Hua's magic book to get some missing details which would still be required after the three mages found nearly averything needed to banish the player.
     
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