The Golden Compass (and a hidden message)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GrimmHatter, Nov 15, 2007.

Remove all ads!
Support Terra-Arcanum:

GOG.com

PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!
  1. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Despite being a supposedly popular trilogy of books, I saw a trailer a few months ago for this movie coming out December 7 called The Golden Compass and, not being even slightly familiar with the premise, was immediately intrigued by the somewhat steampunk setting. Has anyone read the books? Is it in fact, steampunk, or am I being misled?

    With that in mind, I just recently got an email from a relative about the movie. Apparently it is geared towards children/young adults in the same vein as the Narnia series. This email, forwarded to a number of people from my aunt...a mother of three, goes on, and I quote:

    How young are these "children" that this movie is targeting? I support free speech, and keeping in mind that the author of the books is an atheist, if he wants to write a story with atheist views...fine. What's the big deal? If he wants to make for children...again fine. To each his/her own. But what is more important? Defending free speech, or shielding your children from the views of others hidden in the morals of a fairytale they might not even be aware of? If these are young children ( < 10 years old), ok I understand you want to raise your kids with the morals you value yourself. But if we're talking more than 10 years old or even pre-teen, I think their comes a point at which it's time to let children start making personal decisions of their own. They're eventually going to learn more and more and form their own opinions based off their own observations at some point, so why, as a parent, fight it? Be proud that your kid can think for his/herself and shows a little independence. It doesn't mean they're going to Hell or anything.

    But that aside, I'm going to check this movie out.
     
  2. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,796
    Media:
    34
    Likes Received:
    164
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Pretty fucking self-explanatory. Fiction is fiction. If you draw upon religious/mythological themes in your piece of fantasy to support the notion that Yahweh/Allah/Krsna/Santa does/doesn't exist, then that's your right, regardless if people like it or not.

    Yeah, let's do it. Ban a movie. Next we can take all the books Nietzsche ever wrote, pile them together and burn them! Oh, I feel so sacred and holy now!
     
  3. Philes

    Philes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,663
    Likes Received:
    39
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    I'm a (struggling) Christian, and I read and enjoyed the books years ago. I noticed strong anti-religion themes even then in my early teens (the Church is the bad guy in this one, obviously). I sort of want to re-read them again now and get a better understanding of the themes as an adult, because I thoroughly enjoyed the book and I almost wet myself when I completely and unexpectedly saw the preview in a theater.

    Also, that email is from the kind of people who annoy me.....if you're so strong in your faith, it won't be shaken from something like this. If anything, questioning my faith only makes me believe in it more when I come to a resolution in the end.
     
  4. Vyenna

    Vyenna New Member

    Messages:
    1,446
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
  5. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    I find it very disconcerting that whenever a church is the bad guy a book is labelled anti-religious, as if there could be no such thing as an evil church. (Westboro Baptist anyone?)

    It's a shockingly limited mindset.
     
  6. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Only there aren't any churches in this case because there is no god. With no god, churches would have to stoop to fear-induced paranoia and holier-than-thou propaganda about false salvation and redemption through blind faith in order to line their own pockets with gold and keep the ignorant, "God" fearing populace in check.

    Oh wait........
     
  7. wobbler

    wobbler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    The books are great, I believe the movie will be to.

    Besides the email is wrong, unless the translation screwed up.

    They don't kill God, because the known God is only the first angel created that acutally killed the real God and told all the angels after him that he was God. Then he pretty much suicides when he gives up most of his strenght to his second in command.

    Kinda messy spoiler, but hey.
     
  8. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Gee, a misunderstanding by a group of "Cry Wolf" parents trying to shield their children from a religious opinion they don't agree with that they'd just end up discovering on their own in a couple years anyway. Who would've thought it possible? Truth, choice, and independence be damned.
     
  9. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
  10. Grakelin

    Grakelin New Member

    Messages:
    2,128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    The Golden Compass IS a steampunk setting. Yes. They journey into the North.

    Also, the book isn't against religion, but rather against ORGANIZED religion. Pullman <3s Jesus. He hates Priests.

    Incidentally, it is stated head on that it is unknown to the wisest of people in the trilogy whether there ever was a God or not. The God that dies is simply some dude who was once powerful, and is now weak and old and gets turned to dust by the wind.

    EDIT: Also, the books are advertised as being for kids, but they're really not. There are references to child molestation, all sorts of violence, and abstract concepts that anyone below 14 won't grasp. I read the book when I was 12 first, and didn't really understand what was going on.
     
  11. wobbler

    wobbler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    I think I read it when i was 13, and I didn't fully get it. But then I reread the whole trilogy when i was what, 14-15, and I think I understood it better.


    They are not all the time in the Steampunk setting, they also travel to other worlds, including our own( or a world very, VERY similar to ours) "Adam" comes from our world.

    Fat Spoiler I would say, really.
     
  12. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Then maybe it's more accurate to say that the movie, as well, is intended more for teenagers/young adults than for children. Just saying "this movie is for children" is a bit ambiguous. Though, I typically consider children in that 2-10 year-old range. I remember reading The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe in, I think, 5th grade class. I mostly understood it then, but when I moved on to the next books on my own....Prince Caspian, Dawn Treader, etc....I really didn't know what was going on. And I remember those books being intended for "children." They were full of religious conotations, which can be squeezed out of just about anything these days.
     
  13. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    In a story about maggots, is the guy who shot the cow and left it in a field to rot God?
     
  14. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,630
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Ok...in that sense, he's not an athiest at all. He's a chaotic theist.
     
  15. Grakelin

    Grakelin New Member

    Messages:
    2,128
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Some more thing to know:

    -As far as I know, Pullman has never expressed any public opinion on C.S. Lewis's books. 'His Dark Materials' is more based off of John Milton's 'Paradise Lost'.

    -There is no mention of castration or female circumcision in the first book. Castration is mentioned briefly by some characters in the second book, but as a horrible crime committed by a fictional group.

    -The journalistic evidence all comes from a single line in a single article. This is dangerous. Kevin Mitnick's life was destroyed by an overzealous journalist who wanted his opinion heard. It doesn't make the journalist's claims true.

    -Who the fuck spends millions of dollars to convert kids to atheism? You've got to be a real prick to do something like that just to piss parents off. It's not like Fundamentalism where you go to hell for not trying to get all your friends to join. They're atheist. They don't give a shit.

    "Cthulhu" came out this fall. That has some pretty strong anti-Christian elements. God is a blind retard, for goodness sake. Nobody yelled at that.

    Even though the main characters were having a gay relationship, the world was ending, and they basically said that Christianity was a fake.
     
  16. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,796
    Media:
    34
    Likes Received:
    164
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    It's hard to argue against winged octopi.
     
  17. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
  18. Blinky969

    Blinky969 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
Our Host!