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Ridonculous Builds

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Jojobobo, Oct 11, 2013.

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  1. t-roll

    t-roll New Member

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    OK maybe not ridonculous but I have found an interesting build that allows me to be Technologist and Magick whenever I need and still be able to use tech or magick items when necessary. The trick is to get one of those specialized mage backgrounds: Day Mage, Sky Mage, Night Mage or Nature Mage.

    What happens is they add a bonus of +20% magick when conditions are good and remove -20% magick otherwise.


    For example I have a Night Mage Elf

    At night I get 29% magick giving me decent boost to magick items
    but during the day I have 11% Tech allowing me to use any tech item.

    This is kinda power playing but I can use stuff like Charged Ring during the day and if I choose I can simply sleep or wait until morning and keep my character Tech only but if I need magic I can do the opposite stay up all night and sleep during the day.

    I also picked throwing and explosives so I can use them at any time.
    I can also do firearms without critical failure by using them only during the day.

    The interesting thing about the mage backgrounds is that they do not spill over into tech. That -20% magick will not add +20% to tech it simply removes magick up to 0. This has a strange and interesting effect that negative magick becomes 0.


    It would have been way more useful if it did +20% tech at night and +20% magick during the day for a pure hybrid but still pretty neat that I can get the best of both worlds.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  2. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    Don't forget that there are spells that are unaffected by aptitude. I've seen heavily specialized gunslinger builds where people exploit the elemental buff spells (Agility of Fire, Strength of Earth etc) to do things they otherwise couldn't.
     
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  3. t-roll

    t-roll New Member

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    Ah interesting. I know that shrink, haste and a few other spells work any time. I am going for a more hybrid build with explosive expert, arachnid, traps, and elexirs and haste, boost spells, teleport .



    I have been experimenting this this a lil bit and I think it doesn't matter what race I pick.

    Essentially the mage builds give me about 40 magic-tech hybrid leeway. I can go +30 magic/+10 tech or +20 tech/+20 magic possibly also +30 tech +10 magic.

    What is really interesting is that the counter goes into negative but the engine only allows for minimum of 0 magick so that means say I have 15 magic while mage background condition is inappropriate i will actually have -5 but engine will use 0 instead which makes my tech begin as if I had 0 magic.


    The day night I found it to be most useful as you can sleep before combat picking the ideal situation for yourself say if you need spellcaster you can go in magic mode.

    Possibly tho the nature mage could also be useful way faster by choosing to stand on natural floors vs man made floors. I don't know if traps affect the floor but it may be possible to set up traps as man made floors and step on them to control natural mage.
     
  4. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    That's indeed an interesting thought about the floors! Keep experimenting!
     
  5. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    That does all sound pretty interesting. Using the Dark Helm it'd be possible to get a 60 aptitude magick/tech swing. Tech is worth 5.5 aptitude, and magick 5 per spell, so you can take 10 (60/5.5 = 10.9 ish) points of tech and 20 points of spells and still end up with 100 magickal aptitude when the time/location is right, increasing each on a one to one basis can allow for more investment. A Night Mage would probably be good for this, as then you can easily trade with Engineers during the day without them pitching a fit because you're so magickal. Taking it with as an Elf, there's another and you can achieve the same with 10 tech and 17 spells - pretty efficient for the 64 character point total at level 50.

    Or as you say, keeping things more middle of the road is useful for maintaining some tech aptitude at some points and magickal aptitude at others - very useful for exploiting magick and tech bonuses from items like you mentioned, and also interesting in that it's a cool roleplay for a somewhat aptitude "neutral" character who is close to net 0 overall. What most springs to mind is using Charged Rings in your tech period like you said you were doing with your current mage, but then the Ring of Persuasion at other periods (which provides +2 BE and CH bonuses at a relatively low magickal aptitude from what I remember, with only the +3/+3 boost requiring a much higher aptitude) - flitting between combat readiness and being a socialite, saving on a bunch of character points.

    Something that is pretty tricky to pull off is Spell mastery at Tulla with any kind of Tech aptitude, in all my hybrid builds I've never been able to do it despite having the requisite spell college (usually Temporal as it's aptitude independent) filled as there appears to be a magickal aptitude check. A build along these lines though I would say could definitely pull it off and still have the aptitude for Firearms or whatever. Would also be nice just be able to Teleport as a mostly tech guy, the world map travel in this game is a bit frustrating for tech characters.

    Let us know how you get on with it, sounds really interesting! Definitely not a Background I've ever thought of taking to be honest, proving once again that Arcanum is ridiculously layered game.
     
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  6. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    From memory, I believe the spell mastery aptitude check at Tulla is 40. If my memory is correct, 0 overall aptitude + Night Mage + Dark Helm should bring you over the limit (not counting any ambient aptitude modifiers that may well exist in Tulla).
     
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  7. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's a pain to do if you're wanting to end 100 Tech aptitude with some spells, usually means you have to hold out your tech investment until Tulla - which is massively gimping yourself. Sounds like it would be a walk in the park though for this style of builds.
     
  8. t-roll

    t-roll New Member

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    So here's my breakdown of the various mage backgrounds

    Nature mage = very unreliable
    Finding the right surface in the right situation is almost impossible. This is deff most dynamic switching it instantly from tech to magic but until a way to change the ground to natural or man made at will is found I would not recommend using this as is very unreliable.

    If a hack to turn natural into man made is found this would work really well for Gunslinger magick users as you would be turning the ground in man made going tech mode and standing on that ground shooting from afar otherwise you'd revert to magic user.

    Sky Mage = unreliable for magick best for tech fighter
    This one is even worse since most of the action is indoors you would be mostly tech .

    This could work well for a tech heavy character building it like a normal tech char except that you could dip into magic for buff spells and Teleport and when you're out in the open you could teleport around.

    I envision something like half orc, half elf, gnome gunslinger or melee .

    You would be building this character like a tech with Persuasion tech and Pickpocket/Lockpick/Firearms etc whatever you need but you'd be adding buffing spells and whole teleport branch

    Also you'd be buffing yourself while in the open before the fight then going in as buffed up tech. This obvs would not work well for casting spells while in combat.

    Night Mage = good for tech
    This works fine except that since most Arcanum characters sleep at night you only get a small narrow window of opportunity after 6 pm until they go to sleep to use spells like persuade.


    Day Mage = good for magick
    This one is better for magick allowing you full range of spells including a diplomage during the day and a tech during the night.

    The only thing is perception might decrease at night so gunslingers might not work with Day Mage. I am not sure .

    Maybe electric light could help? Or possibly Light spell .


    Another interesting power build appears to be listed right in the Arcanum Wiki here http://arcanum.wikia.com/wiki/Bugs_and_Glitches under exploits

    You can create permanent buffs and permanent summons by using reflection shied and dweomer shield . I don't know if Unofficial Patch fixes these issues.


    However one legal possible use of the magiteck combo is to create fatigue sustainer and intelligence boosters for yourself while tech and using them while magick user. This would be a tech magick sustainer herbologist/therapeutics expert.



    Here are some possible interesting or fun builds that you could do. Somewhat ridonculous only because you'd be be able to get something like 30 magick almost off the bat up to possibly 60 just enough to be above average magick user while at the same time still be able to have like 10-30 tech aptitude just not both at the same time.

    - Tech spell sustain : magick user by day who makes fatigue restorers and intelligence enhancers at night. Day Mage

    - Magick grenadier : arachnid buddy and arcane plate by day who makes explosives by night. Day Mage.

    - Teleporting smith : meele indoors with machine plate and ability to teleport outdoors. Sky Mage

    - Magick Gunslinger : firearm user by day who can boost himself with spell sustain but with added above average spell casting ability by night . Night Mage

    - Techomagick Diplomage : Mind control spells by day and elixirs by night . Day Mage
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  9. t-roll

    t-roll New Member

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    Btw one trick I found I can use to control my balance tech and magick early in the game is to not spend character points until I need them. I keep a reserve of 3 points which can easily boost me from +5 to +15 as necessary

    Anyway I found Day/Night Mage to be most useful to dynamically swap between tech and magic user when I need it. All I gotta do is sleep until evening/morning. Is not as tedious as it sounds.

    So I have tried the traps and it doesn't appear to work for Nature Mage. I need a spell or a hack that is able to change the very ground from human made to nature made. I don't think there is such a spell. So while the nature mage appears to be the most dynamic simply stepping on the right surface changes you from tech to magic is also least dependable as you might not be able to find the right ground in certain areas.

    Perhaps if someone were to make a spell that is able to make the ground man made or natural at will could have been really useful.


    Aren't Dark Helms bugged giving permanent bonus once worn? I am using the unofficial patch.

    I would recommend a Sky or Night mage . Build your character mostly Tech then with a Dark Helm + the bonus from mage would give you the ability to teleport during the night/open sky. I'd say Sky Mage is best for Teleporting Tech because you'd mostly be a Tech as most action happens indoors or underground and only a mage out in the open but then again you could stand under a tree and you'd become tech again. Seems most reliable to tech only character .
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  10. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I think Drog fixed them quite a while back in the UAP. Same with other similar bugged items (that blade that's -4 Dex that I'm too lazy to look up).

    Sounds good! Might give it a try at some point.
     
  11. Ravidel

    Ravidel New Member

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    Hi, I have a question for Jojobobo: with the new dwarves thief build, how do you get past Crash Site? You have low DX and cannot raise combat skills.
     
  12. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Even with no skill points you can still hit stuff through melee attacks, and with a single point in Herbology you can produce a lot of Healing Salves - and I think some of the weapons you can buy from the pre-game merchant have bonus to hit chance. Plus the fact there's no obligation to clear the entire Crash Site, you only have to kill the guy who comes looking for you (or you can let Virgil handle him, but I'm pretty sure I didn't do that for RP reasons). Plus plus, as another option if you do want to clear the Crash Site - if you clear out the cave (fight the rats in the light, their melee skill is also god awful) then you can heal limitlessly without Salves by sleeping in the bed - easy enough to clear all the critters in the Crash Site.

    It might take some tries, but these things are not impossible even on the hardest difficulty - though bear in mind I do play real time with all of these builds. I also never said that these builds were designed to be easy to play, just more that they achieve something interesting ;)

    Once you're in Shrouded Hills, you can make at least one Charged Ring (there's a guaranteed capacitor in the locked store room next to Doc Roberts' clinic) and you can buy a copper ring from Lloyd - which allows you to put a point in melee. If you find another capacitor then that's two (happens fairly often if you got through the tech containers), and then you can bee-line to Tarant if you want and get the Gauntlets. Two skill points of melee (8 out of 20) is fine to complete the game with when you have Stun Grenades to shoot your to hit chance up (it's fine anyway even without that to be honest if you have some patience).

    I hope that's enough of a steer, it's been over a of year since I last played Arcanum. It's a tedious build anyway as mentioned from all the crafting, so if you're finding muddling through the Crash Site with limited skills too irritating then it might not be for you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018 at 10:24 PM
  13. Ravidel

    Ravidel New Member

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    Yeah, i usually play no-brain characters, but I’ve tried some of your builds.
    Since everything was deleted, I think i’ll start again with any of those, maybe the Elven overlord or the hideous beast.
    Obviously, everyone’s here waiting for your next character :)
     
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  14. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Haha not too sure when I'll get round to doing another. A fun one I did do which I think I mentioned in general discussion (for whatever reason) was a gun party build, taking the Educator background maxing charisma and equipping followers (Sebastian, Vollinger, Payne and maybe a dwarf or two) with a Tesla Gun, Flame Thrower, Grenade Launcher and Bronwyck's Gun - using Muscle Makers to make sure they were up to spec for the Strength requirements.

    The build was pretty tricky, as you need to keep your level low and get Persuasion maxed ASAP to get a mixed good/bad party and ensure the followers weren't really under-levelled. So long as you get to the bottom of the Molochean Hand stuff Vollinger won't betray you.

    Got as far as Thanatos and all the weapons built and then gave up for whatever reason, should have definitely completed the game with the character having got that far but for whatever reason I didn't bother. Certainly was a cool build, and one that makes good use of Educator as no firearms users get any training for the skill (unlike Melee and Dodge, where some characters do get training).
     
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