My query concerns the amount of character points that are needed to be invested in a particular skill before one can be trained in it. It was my earlier belief that one invested point allowed apprentice training, three points allowed expert training and that master training required all five points invested before being allowed (or even for the training quest to be offered). However it seems that apprentice training is allowed even without investing a single point as long as you enjoy ever so slight bonuses in the skill in question. For example, the black robe dropped by a high level assassin that gives a +2 bonus in prowling enables apprentice training even though the skill bar suggest that only half a point has been gained. I suppose this means that each invested character point is worth 4 skill points, which in turn means that investing all five points is worth 20 skill points. Since the black robe mentioned earlier allows apprentice training I also assume that invested character points are unrelated to training and that it's entirely dependent upon actual skill points. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Now, at last, the question. My guess is that master training requires 20 skill points. Does that make my half-elf gunslinger unable to gain master training in firearms since five invested points leaves him with only 19 skill points, due to the 1 point racial penalty? If someone could clear this entire matter up for me, it'd be much appreciated. Thank you.
No, you are entirely correct. To gain apprentice training you need greater than zero skill points in a particular skill, to gain expert training you need greater than 8. To achieve these levels apart from character points you can use equipment as you rightly point out, or you can pick a background that gives a slight bonus too. This link is the best example on how bonuses can be used to their fullest potential to attain training. The points required to gain master training vary between the different skills (as indicated in the previous linked thread, just times his requisite values by 4 to get to the 20 point scale) - but still you need 19 in firearms to obtain mastery so you are right in assuming under normal circumstances a half-elf cannot gain it (there are unfortunately no items that give bonuses to firearms). However, if you take the Bandit background you can offset the penalty - which is really the only reason to take such a crummy background.
There is also a firearms-boosting blessing, but that's not available before near the end of the game.
What a mess! Thinking of all those wasted points will prevent me from ever playing the game ordinarily again. Still, thanks a bunch for the help Jojobobo! That's the final "step-on-the-altar-and-die blessing" right? Unfortunately, Murgo from Vooriden has run off with the stone needed for the altar in his hometown, so it's probably unavailable in this playthrough. Bastard.
Yeah, having the knowledge does kind of encourage meta-gaming - still it's nice to be in the know slightly about what sort of bonuses are out there even if you aren't desperate to create an optimised character.
Since both of the characters I finished the game with ended up with plenty of saved points at level 50, I wouldn't care much about the wasted points. But I'm trying to make a Master of all skills now, so obviously that takes a bit of planning, even though I'm going for the easy way with full Therapeutics and Brain Builder/Muscle maker. (Which is why I went with the Lady's Man background, since I'm hoping that the multiple Brain Builders will still leave my dwarf with some passable looks. And I'm skipping spells entirely, so no 'cheating' with Purity of Water.) I'm certainly not doing it for the challenge. Instead I figured that'd be the only way to make sure that I get to play all the master quests, in the cases where there are actual quests for them. Because some skills just aren't worth mastering with a regular character. It's just so much easier to pay coin for repairs and healing than to spend points on Repair, Heal, Spot Trap and Disarm Traps. And with stores being so easy to steal from, Gambling and Haggle aren't really worth it either. (Not stealing from stores this time, and also playing on hard difficulty for the first time. Rather than trying to rebalance the game directly, I prefer to balance it by making things more difficult for myself.) I'm also trying to ignore side quests and speed through the main quest line to the end, to see how much mileage I'll get out of Velorien's Blessing. But I had to level up to 5 to pick up Jayna Stiles, and to 7 in order to pick up Magnus so he could play his part before that show was over. And that required finding some early side quests whose outcomes didn't depend on skills. Ironic that the future Master of all skills had none at that time, but there you go. After maxing Therapeutics I wanted to spend the early points on Spot Traps and Disarm Traps before Black Mountain, just to see how fun it is to have actual skills for the traps down there. Proving to be a save/reload fest, since I didn't put points in Perception, and therefore couldn't become a Master Trap Spotter, and even Expert training in Disarm Traps isn't available until Wheel Clan. (It's so funny how various NPCs know stuff like that. The cake is taken by Melee Apprentice trainers who point to Isle of Despair for Expert training in Melee. Even if they know that a Melee Expert was sent there, it seems so silly to just mention it like it was any old place a student could visit for some training. At least I learned that inventors and some blacksmiths handle Apprentice training in Disarm Traps. That had completely slipped me by, and I did the Schuyler dungeon completely without that training, relying on lanterns to counter whatever lighting penalty is applied.) Having now found out that not all skills can be mastered with 4.5 (18/20) points, I guess it's a good thing I plan to save points until all skills are mastered. Too bad if the dwarven +2 bonus to all tech skills won't be of use for mastering Firearms, but them's the breaks I guess.
Wouldn't call them a waste. Mastery training, while useful, is not crucial for a firearms user. Right.
You can gain mastery in a skill with less than 20 skill points. For realises. As long as you have more than 16/20, you are eligible for mastery training.
Game logic wise, the requirements are: 1 - Apprentice 9 - Expert 18 - Master This means that a dwarf can master his technological skills by only spending 4 character points in each. However, at least one mastery quest (Persuasion) specifically checks for 20.
Ahh, I see the mistake I made. I interpreted the following as a requirement, when it was just what that particular character (a gnome) would end up with: So I guess a single point in Firearms will be enough for my dwarf after all. 8)
Sorry, you probably got that from me as that's what I implied was true - I thought that was the case as I knew at least that 17 points wasn't enough for mastery training and so I assumed that these were requisite values and not what his character would end up with.
