Follower development: An Arcanum II Wish

Discussion in 'Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum' started by Eloc Knarfnos, Apr 4, 2002.

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  1. Eloc Knarfnos

    Eloc Knarfnos New Member

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    There are so many great aspects of Arcanum that it makes it easy to see how it might have been if only this or that were a bit different. It makes me miss the days of olde (a mere ten or fifteen years ago) when change was slow, competition less ferocious and making progress in small increments was normal and OK. (No it wasn't "better," just different.) Then we would have had reasonable expectation of a sequel that was simply an improvement on the previous version. Now, it seems that the market only allows some great leap, or failure and product oblivion. I, for one, would welcome a simple sequel to Arcanum that just added many more adventures along the same plot and improved various role playing aspects of the game.

    Specifically, the one "improvement" that I would welcome the most and that would effectively make this a whole new game would be if I could control the development of followers. I guess I'm failing to conceive of some fundamental aspect of the program's underlaying complexity. I would have thought that it would not be that significant a leap in development effort to allow players to assign their follower's character points manually. The user interface is in place and accessible for checking the follower's stats, so setting the numbers shouldn't be that big a deal. I suppose the difficulties come in making the followers use what they're capable of if that isn't statically determined. The problems with the current follower's automatic item selection demonstrate how that is deceptively difficult. I'd be happy with being able to select from a short list of follower types (e.g. healer, warrior mage, tech archer, etc) that would control all of the automatic, combat actions and then being able to ask each follower to perform any of their abilities in a similar manner to getting Magnus to make featherweight axes. Follower: What can I do for you? Select spell (teleport), click on target (map location) or whatever.

    To me, this would make use of the wealth of stuff that makes Arcanum so interesting. Presently, there's a significant imbalance between what's available and any way to do anything with it. Granted, that's a realistic "good" point of the game, that you must prioritize and make severe choices. But while we can't each do everything, a well designed team can do a whole lot more. Once you've learned about your own limitations, learning to manage others gets things done...
     
  2. Maniac

    Maniac New Member

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    First the game would be too easy.
    And secondly and most importantly the game would be ruined. For example why waste your cp on featherweight axe if Magnus can do it and so on and on...Character development would be made not very important. NOW then you play a mage and then you play an inventor the game is SO much diferent.


    P.S. Don't mind me that's just my opinion.
     
  3. Etalis Craftlord

    Etalis Craftlord New Member

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    Besides, it would ruin the RPG nature of the game. If you were a college student in quantum physics, how would you feel if your parents made you switch to Mesopotamian archaeology randomly?

    However, maybe if you had the choice to pick from one of two or three options...
     
  4. Jarinor

    Jarinor New Member

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    Well, you could always edit the follower schemes, so that they took up whatever you wanted. Be warned though, that the follower schemes only affect followers AFTER they gain their first level with you - you can't change Magnus's pre-level 8 stats, but you can alter them after level 8, courtesy of the scheme.
     
  5. Eloc Knarfnos

    Eloc Knarfnos New Member

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    The game can already be played very easily if that's what you want. After about the mid-point, with rare exceptions, you have to work to get killed in fast turn based mode. You already have to choose how difficult you want your character's role to be. What I'm wishing for is an increase in the complexity of possible player decisions. Optimizing and playing the roles of an entire team could easily be played as more difficult than controlling one member surrounded by largely witless followers. Sure, one type of play would be with an invincible team. You can make them now, but only with severely uncreative supporting roles. A well armed (with swords or axes since that's all they know how to use) and armored group of Virgil, Sogg, Gar, Chuuka, Magnus and Mutt is really easy to get and darned hard to slow down, but what role playing sense does it make? If you want to base your choice on anything other than generic melee fighters, it becomes severely limited, especially after the more fundamental good or evil path choice.

    If your team of pure Elven mages, band of pyro and poison archers, or all girl squad of pick pocketing, back stabbing, thieves was having too easy a time of it, crank up the difficulty setting. How well developed and consistent the role playing would be would again be the player's choice. As it is you can decide whether or not to pick up a very limited selection of followers.

    Don't get me wrong, Arcanum's a blast. It leaves me wanting more rather than walking away disgusted, despite its amorality, violence glorification and pop philosophy. I appreciate what it is, but more what a sequel could be.

    * * *

    Jarinor - I've seen mention of this being possible and I'd like to try it out, but so far the only explanations of just how to go about it may as well be in elven. Something of the form: It's easy, just do (#!+)(**^%). Perhaps a level of game hacking competence is a presumed prerequisite. If there is (or could come to be) a description of what's required (i.e. not some unspoken presumption that of course Visual C++ or some such is on your PC) and how to "edit the follower schemes," I would certainly appreciate it!
     
  6. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Administrator Staff Member

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    I raised this with Calis.... We NEED an
    "Arcanum II Suggestion" forum. I don't CARE if one will never be made... HELL... There are enough Fallout 3 suggestion forums...
     
  7. Etalis Craftlord

    Etalis Craftlord New Member

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    There was a really good one going for a while... maybe it's time to go grave robbing again and post the URL for it :p
     
  8. Jarinor

    Jarinor New Member

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    Eloc Knarfos, if you have Notepad, you can change follower schemes :smile:. There are tutorials for it floating around - try doing a search on this board (search all the forums by the way), and ask at some other forums. Once you understand how it works, it's not that hard.
     
  9. Calis

    Calis Member

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    Show me more posts on this topic and I'll make it. I'm not going to create some forum just to have 4 or 5 threads in it. The fact of the matter is that I don't think this'll generate enough discussion to warrant its own forum. If you feel a pressing need to discuss Arcanum 2, you can do it right here.
     
  10. Quethim

    Quethim New Member

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    There have been many different threads on Arcanum 2 though. I have seen a lot. Everytime I look there is a t least one.
     
  11. Calis

    Calis Member

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    Right now there is exactly one. It doesn't get in the way of anything here, does it? Why the need for an extra forum?
     
  12. Jarinor

    Jarinor New Member

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    No forum needed, I reckon. We've already laid out our wish list previously anyway. Ah, that was a lovely thread...
     
  13. Etalis Craftlord

    Etalis Craftlord New Member

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  14. Jarinor

    Jarinor New Member

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    Yes, a strong and hearty one from me. Don't dig up old threads Etalis. Feel free to post links to them in existing threads for people to read, but DON'T dig them up! It's annoying, stupid and pointless.
     
  15. Etalis Craftlord

    Etalis Craftlord New Member

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    ^----- what I meant.

    Besides, that's why I asked first. :p
     
  16. Deadly Bread

    Deadly Bread New Member

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    What they need to do, for the followers, is make them more speciualised to this or that, so they can be better than you at some things, and maybe give you more precise things to suggest to them, and then make them sometimes not do what you ask, depending how much they like you(Ie wasteland's pool money, when NPCs wouldn't always give up their money).

    Also, you'd expect mages not to want to follow techies and techies not liking mages so much too, it being the basis for the game that they don't go well together, or in cases such as persuasion master, make it hurt both the technological and magickal skills involved when they are co-existing...

    Just my three and a half cents.
     
  17. Etalis Craftlord

    Etalis Craftlord New Member

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  18. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Administrator Staff Member

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    I disagree. All you get here are the regulars who bother reading the general forum. A specific Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum would bring in more people. It would also encourage debate about a sequel. As opposed to the occasional thread. Personally, I have a list of ideas that's typed up for Arcanum 2, but don't want to post them in this forum, mainly because it'll just be forgotten. While it's likely it would also be forgotten in an Arcanum 2 Sugestion Forum, it's still a matter of posting in the appropriate place. I mean hell, there's only 1 thread in the RPG forum at the moment. Why not just move that thread in here and shut down the forum? Also, the classifieds section has been dead for a while, why not shut it down? Hell, whenever I want someone for somehting, I don't post in there, I post in the General Forum. Also, there's only the ocassional thread in the modding and scripting forum too. Why not just move them in here?

    Why not you say? Because that's the place for them. So too, an Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum is the place for Arcanum 2 Suggestions. If it really bothers you that much, start one up and if it flops, then shut it down.

    An Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum also encourages people to come up with suggestions.

    _________________
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    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkUnderlord on 2002-04-05 15:36 ]</font>
     
  19. Calis

    Calis Member

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    Alright, I think I'll do just that. If this takes off, I'm fine with it. If it doesn't, we'll just close it again.
     
  20. DarkUnderlord

    DarkUnderlord Administrator Staff Member

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    YAY!!!

    *DarkUnderlord now realises he has to get some ideas in there....*
     
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