It's actually a lot better than I'd thought it would be.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dark Elf, Nov 15, 2008.

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  1. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay, so I've spent the last few days procrastinating school assignments and used the time to play Fallout 3, the game we've all spent the last few years barking at like a band of rabid straydogs on acid. And to be perfectly frank with you, it seems to me that the massive barrage of criticism aimed at Bethesda by people like yours truly has been at least partly unwarranted. Just like the title says, I find this game to be a lot better than I'd thought it would be, and with Bethesda being the most influential developer of RPG's these days (like it or not), I hope that other developers will jump on the bandwagon and hopefully some of them will make a great RPG one of those days.

    There have been complaints about the combat system after the release, though I don't really see why. Yes, this isn't isometric turnbased, but it's quite passable as an FPS and I actually like VATS. Yes, shooting people in the head sometimes results in their legs flying off but honestly I didn't see much of that before I picked the Bloody Mess perk, after which everything is blasted to pieces on death, but hey, that's what the perk is there for isn't it?

    I'm currently at level 13, playing the usual low Endurance, maxed Intelligence and Luck character with emphasis on Small Guns, Speech and Science I've always preferred in Fallout. I'm glad to see that science is finally a useful skill (so is repair). I'm not bothered by the merging of Doctor and First Aid into medicine either. Making Axes fall under the Blunt Weapon category in Oblivion was a stupid move, yes, but I'm all for turning two somewhat useless skills into one that actually does something. After all, one of the glaring flaws with SPECIAL in the previous Fallouts was precisely that a number of skills were pretty much useless. In Fallout 3, you have less skills but all of them have their uses, and that's a fair trade in my book.

    So far, I've been relieved to see that there really aren't any fedex quests, except for a few ones where you go hunting certain materials for people, in which case you can go to them and sell it whenever you have the material they want. The questlines are actually pretty well done and a big step up from the Elder Scrolls games. Of course, I hear people say that the main questline is retarded, but I haven't progressed that far into that yet so I can't give a definite statement. People have also complained about the lack of the "wasteland" feel that's the hallmark of the series and that things are just too damn close to each other and I partly agree, but I also have to admit that they did a good job at making DC look and feel like a war-torn desolate hellhole. In fact, I prefer it this way. I have a feeling that a classic Fallout game situated in Southern California wouldn't have resonated well with Todd & Co, better leave that area in our memory without running the risk of having it defiled in some way. It's just different, doesn't mean that it's bad (though I could have been without the endless trailing through subway stations to get to new areas).

    In conclusion, it's a good game in its own right. Heck, I would even say that it's a great game. But just as we expected the distinct atmosphere of Fallout isn't there. Even though the quality of writing is several notches higher than that of Oblivion, it's not on par with Troika. Skill and stat checks occur in dialogue, but it's somewhat retarded at times. Often a high Intelligence doesn't lead to particularly insightful replies, but rather, the character is stating things that are so obvious they could just as well have done without the stat check. I'm not really sure that I like the bobble heads either, it's one of those "gamey" features that cater to the console crowd and I could have done without it. My greatest concern is replayability. I've already maxed or is close to maxing most of the skills I use, and to be honest it doesn't seem like quest outcomes will differ much depending on how you play, although I didn't blow Megaton up during this playthrough. Like others have said, there's a lack of moral ambiguity and it essentially comes down to if you're a good guy or a bad guy, though that's still a step up for Bethesda.

    It's a great game, but Fallout in name only. Had it been another Elder Scrolls game, or a new Bethesda franchise, this review would have been more positive than it already is.

    Peace, fuckers.
     
  2. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

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    Honestly, I think that may just be more a matter of real world geography than game design. Maybe it's just common perception to somone from the eastern United States (I live in south-western Pennsylvania, only about a 6-7 hour drive from DC), but I did spend a year traveling out west and I can say that eastern US is more densely populated than the west. It just followed the natural progression of local settlement starting back with the original 13 colonies. Therefore, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to anticipate that more locations in close proximity remained settleable in the east than the west after the war when everyone came back up above ground. I don't know whether that was Bethesda's original intention or not. But to me, it does make more sense regardless of whether it feels more "wasteland-ish" or not.

    Anyway, I was at my brother's place today when he revealed to me that he had just bought a PS3 and Fallout 3. After only playing it for a day, he said it easily ranks as one of his top 3 games of all time. That's a lot coming from him, since we were both hardcore into Fallout 1 and 2 when there were released back in the day. He wanted me to take it for a spin, but I sternly held my ground and vowed not to touch the game until I was holding my own copy in my hands and sitting in front of my own PC with a good 3-4 hours to dive right into it. I settled for a readthrough of the instruction booklet, or Vaultec Handbook vol. 3, and I'll admit some of new perks (Cannibal and Mr. Sandman) look pretty wicked. It's on my Christmas list and I'm frothing at the mouth in anticipation.
     
  3. Grakelin

    Grakelin New Member

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    I found out I could pickpocket explosives into people's inventories today.


    It was amazing.
     
  4. Phadech

    Phadech New Member

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    Honestly I tried to hate it, but I couldn't. While still weak as a Fallout installment, it easily shits on everything Beth has done before.

    Some of its features were very annoying, and particularly its ending was terrible, however.

    Maybe I'll say more after several playthroughs *shrug*
     
  5. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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  6. Dark Elf

    Dark Elf Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, I've finished it now. Will be a long time before I replay it, if ever. By and large, the main quest was a huge disappointment, being far too short and failing at delivering any sense of interest or believability. Bethesda promised 200 endings, I got like one ending slide, and even Ron Perlman couldn't make that narrative interesting.

    The most stupid part of the game was
    when I couldn't ask Fawkes to activate the heavily radiated Project Purity, despite the fact that the guy is immune to radiation, and even helped me retrieve a GECK from a heavily radiated area earlier in the game. Go autobots!

    All in all, this game suffers from the same fundamental flaw as Oblivion. Fun in the beginning, but interest is lost way too fast.
     
  7. Grakelin

    Grakelin New Member

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  8. Jungle Japes

    Jungle Japes Well-Known Member

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    I attempted a second play through, but had a real problem keeping Charon and Dogmeat in line. They'd get stuck somewhere, and then I'd fast travel across the wasteland leaving them behind. I lost Dogmeat once and eventually just wrote him off, only to have him suddenly and unexpectedly reappear many hours later. Then it was both Charon and Dogmeat, and I probably would have finished the game before they ever showed back up. It also really bothered me that, if I didn't get first blood on an enemy and they killed him I didn't get any XP, or that if I was trying to quietly sneak through a danger zone, they would still engage the enemies, either getting me spotted or getting themselves killed. There were one or two quests that I couldn't finish because I must have bypassed a trigger somewhere along the way, thereby breaking the script. There were way too many locations that had no discernible quest associated with them. The Republic of Dave was about the biggest waste of a map waypoint ever conceived, and was one of many locations that seemed half-baked, intriguing at first glance but disappointing upon thorough exploration. In 9 conversations out of 10, the speech skill is completely worthless. Weapons degrade much too quickly, especially the sniper rifle. I can't get married and pimp my wife for a few extra caps. That is all... for now.
     
  9. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

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    Anyone else hear about the new expansions Beth is already whipping up? The one is called The Pitt (or something like that) and takes place in Pittsburgh, which stokes the shit out of me since I'm from Pittsburgh and we never get anything cool written about the city. The other has something to do with Steel and continues the Brotherhood storyline. They're supposed to be available to PC and 360 players, but no confirmation on PS3 players.
     
  10. Xiao_Caity

    Xiao_Caity New Member

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    Whelp, I've officially lost any mild desire I've ever had to play this game. Back to Star Ocean for me. (I may wind up reviewing First Departure on here, for the sheer fact that I have nice things to say about voice acting for the first time since, well, ever.)
     
  11. Vorak

    Vorak Administrator Staff Member

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    Its got a few interesting side quests but the dialogue is terrible, the followers boring and the ending stupid, I've tried a few different things but I always get basically the same ending.

    Time to trade this game in.
     
  12. Peter Quincy

    Peter Quincy Member

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    I was standing outside the Fallout store sheepishly wondering if I could go in without having played the first two and wondering if I could run the game pretty or not, when Left 4 Dead jumped on me from a neighboring rooftop, hit me over the head with mallet made of awesome and told me to use my $50 to buy Dr Pepper. I have no regrets.
     
  13. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

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    I recieved it from my brother as a birthday gift a couple days ago. Looks like I won't have to wait till Christmas now.

    I've only been able to play in 1 hour increments here and there for grand total of about 6 or 7 hours in, but I do like it so far. Does it "feel" like Fallout? No. I'm with Japes in that it reminds more of Vampire: Bloodlines in the gameplay and dialogue system. I'll even go further to say there are touches of Arcanum throughout with the schematics and collectable junk you come across. Ironically, though, it feels more like Bethesda bought the rights to Mad Max and tried making a follow up to the movie trilogy. That might sound strange considering the Mad Max influence on the Fallout franchise.

    I'm a little disappointed in the music so far. Fallout music was one of the most defining features of the old franchise and I was hoping against all hope that Beth would've used some of the older, more recognizable tracks in 3. As it is, 3's soundtrack sounds like Fallout 1's score and Oblivion's got drunk, had sex, and 9 months later this is what we get. Some of the tracks have fucking horn sections in them. Wft? Luckily, Beth's games have always been very user-friendly when it comes to customizing the soundtrack, so that's just a minor annoyance.

    From what I read all over the tubes, VATS has been either hit or miss with the fans. I have to say I'm in the "hit" camp. Maybe it's because of my refusal to exploit or condemn it, but I think it works well given the FP genre of the game. And even though you can't target enemies with melee weapons, nothing's more satisfying than watching your character come down on across the back of a cowering whore with a Louisville Slugger in slowmo.

    I will say that I agree with Vorak in that the begining character creation process is utterly boring as hell. I have no interest in what my character's childhood was like or who bullied him throughout his teenage years. I don't want any moral influence from my character's father to be a "good boy" if I want to RP a tough-as-nails, slaver asshole in later levels. The old Fallouts let you start a new game, roll up a character, and then through you into the game world. The hand-holding in 3 was just stupid and pointlessly drawn out.

    So that's my initial impression. Overall, I'm very entertained by it. We'll see if it's a different tune come the end of the game.
     
  14. Grakelin

    Grakelin New Member

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    I've been trying to be as evil as I possibly can for my third character. It's actually really hard, I've destroyed two major areas through quests, and a third because I picked the option to try to get Big Town to bow to me.
     
  15. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

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    From the looks of things, Fallout 3 is going to follow a moral format similar to most RPGs and one that annoys the piss out of me. I like the choice to play a good or evil character. But what I hate is games make one side more accesible than others. With most, if you want to follow and complete the main quest, you're forced to do so as a morally good character. If you choose to play an evil one, being "evil" is reduced to killing innocent NPCs and stealing shit to lower your alignment. Rarely does a decision in a quest make you evil, and that's if said decision even lets you advance the plot of the quest, with the only other non-good option being to just fuck off and ignore the quest. I'm only a little further in 3, but I've come across enough plot branches to anticipate that this is the same case. Weak. At least the other points of the game are still fun.
     
  16. Grakelin

    Grakelin New Member

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    I scoured the Fallout wiki after my second run of the game, and there actually ARE a large variety of ways to complete quests evilly.

    Especially the Tenpenny tower quest with the ghouls, wherein no matter what you do, something horrible happens.

    Android quest, Megaton, Tenpenny Tower, Wasteland Survival Guide (to a lesser extent), Blood Ties, and Shoot 'Em In the Head all have ways to complete them evilly. Many of the quests that initially end up seing benevolent will let you pull them into neutrality, such as making the 'mayor' of Big Town give you the caps from the town's medical supply as payment.

    Stealing and killing innocents is still a surefire way to do it, though. The problem is, there are relatively few innocents in this game who aren't surrounded by other innocents, who will cause a chain reaction and alienate the town. I managed to kill Mayor Simms without anyone noticing once, though.
     
  17. Phadech

    Phadech New Member

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  18. Grossenschwamm

    Grossenschwamm Well-Known Member

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    If anything, I find the exploding midget glitch to be hilarious.
     
  19. Vorak

    Vorak Administrator Staff Member

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    On account of it only costing me $10 I have the PS3 version of the game, once the price goes down I'm hoping afan made patch will make getting the PC version worthwhile. Firstly they need to turn off invincibility for children.
     
  20. GrimmHatter

    GrimmHatter Active Member

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    I'm expecting that to happen within the first week they release the GECK. Child-mongering, VATS targeting with melee weapons, and groin shots are top-o-the-list.
     
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