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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject:  Arcanum ownership
 
Lord

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Just out of curiosity, who owns Arcanum at the moment? I know Good Old Games is selling it (and I've bought a copy from there), but I've been out of the Arcanum 'loop' for ages so I'm not sure what's what.


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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: 
 
Obey your Master
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Sierra was the publisher, and presumably owns the rights to Arcanum.

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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: 
 
Lord

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Hm.. didn't Sierra go bust though? Companies change, disappear or merge so much I can't tell sometimes who's who.

I'm curious about who owns it because so many people (me included) have wanted to work on an Arcanum 2 and I'm not actually sure if we're allowed to given that someone is still making money from Arcanum 1.

I'm especially curious at the moment since I've basically finished my Computer Science/Games Programming degree and am thinking of making a super simple test game (Initially: simple UI, isometric camera, 3D character with just hitpoints + damage to run around in a tiny area).

Gotta get a student version or 3DS max and visual studio again and relearn some stuff I haven't used in a while, but I want to make sure I'm not treading on anyone's toes before I start any programming.


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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: 
 
Never in doubt
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Just rename it and no one's going to bother about it.

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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: 
 
Nemesis of the Ancients
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Check out the modules section. There's a few other people working on similar projects.

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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: 
 
Water Merchant
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Charonte and ZeroBot (AKA Crypton) are working on new game engines in C/C++.

The Arcanum Alive project is Zero's website. Check it out:

http://arcanum.game-alive.com/page/index/


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: 
 
Reptilus Rex
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You can code a game like Arcanum to run in C++? That's amazing.

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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: 
 
Technological Marvel
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Sierra is now a division of Activision Blizzard. Troika has become defunct as of several years ago now and I would have thought they'd hold the actual intellectual property for Arcanum.

Either way, if you want to start your own Arcanum-oriented project, do so, but don't attempt to make any money off of it and don't use any datafiles from the original (art/music etc; you're just asking for trouble IMO) and they probably wont care. There are several other community driven projects for games such as Ultima, Morrowind etc that do this with out any sort of copyright issues.

An Arcanum 2 'module' that uses the original engine and developed using current modding tools is perfectly legal as it requires players to already own it. This is true regardless of the current legal status of Arcanum.


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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:48 am Post subject: 
 
No Hole is Sacred
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Blizzard say they are working on a new game that has nothing to do with any of their current titles. Perhaps.... its Arcanum!

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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:45 am Post subject: 
 
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I'm not sure I like the idea of Blizzard touching Arcanum.

Hell, I'd rather Bethesda get the rights.

At least Oblivion with guns, top-hats, monocles, and auto-matons would be fun.

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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: 
 
Obey your Master
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Langolier!

Long time no see man.

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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: 
 
Untrained

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I'd like to know that as well. I have recently discovered a brilliant game engine and I'd like to make a game based in Arcanum, but I don't want to get sue threats and have my whatever work I've done wasted for nothing.

Some fans were working on a fan game called The Silver Lining which was based off of Sierra's King's Quest games. They were threatened with legal action by Sierra I believe, even though it was completely free. It turns out they went on with the game which was good but the risk is too high, what with copyright issues and all.


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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: 
 
Water Merchant
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arcanumfangirl wrote:
I'd like to know that as well. I have recently discovered a brilliant game engine and I'd like to make a game based in Arcanum, but I don't want to get sue threats and have my whatever work I've done wasted for nothing.

Some fans were working on a fan game called The Silver Lining which was based off of Sierra's King's Quest games. They were threatened with legal action by Sierra I believe, even though it was completely free. It turns out they went on with the game which was good but the risk is too high, what with copyright issues and all.


Based? So it's a completely different and standalone game, right? Then I'm not surprised that they had such problems and I recommend you to not follow their path (and mistakes), no matter if Arcanum is owned by some company or not. If you want to create some other game based on Arcanum, release it as modification for Arcanum, no matter that it's different engine and is not using any of Arcanum game files.

So with this modification, people must own a copy of Arcanum, and you should check in your engine that they really own it, in same way as original game does -> CD Check.

Or better, you release it as modification for Arcanum demo version. So people will be able to play it even when they do not own copy of Arcanum.

Still you must check if they really have it installed, and you must install your game into Arcanum directory. Also, your game should not contain any content that comes from retail version of Arcanum, except if its modified somehow.

Hope this helps.

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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: 
 
Apprentice

Joined: Nov 20, 2010
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I'm just curious about this, but what would this engine allow that current modding tools don't?
(keep in mind I know nothing about the current state of the art of Arcanum's modding tools)

FWIW, if you want some examples of modding vs. new IP you have:
- modding: Co8 on the ToEE
- new IP: Piranha Bytes' Risen, where the gameplay is all similar to Gothic while not having any connections to Gothic


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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: 
 
Fucking illogical, captain
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Offhand, I'd say the most notable change would be user-friendliness. Arcanum is a bitch to mod.

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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: 
 
Safeguard of the Wild
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I have a physical cardboard package! :3

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 PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: 
 
Apprentice
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Yuki wrote:
I have a physical cardboard package! :3
Awesome!

ontopic:
Being in the middle of my Information Systems Engineering degree and knowing Arcanum is mostly orphaned I'been thinking for a while about what can and cannot be done with it due to legal issues. As it has been my dream for a while to make a good 3D game engine (partly for learning purposes, and because I just want to) I think a small Arcanum clone, or Arcanum "inspired" game will definately be one of my firsts projects -after all, how many games do you know that combine Steampunk and Magic?-.

On a sidenote, I'm drawing the baselines for a pen&paper RPG (meaning sitting on a table, roling actual dice, tophats optional) using the world of Arcanum, tho I'm now beginning to wonder if anyone else has already done this and can spare me the effort '^^


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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: 
 
Nemesis of the Ancients
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arcanumfangirl wrote:
I'd like to know that as well. I have recently discovered a brilliant game engine and I'd like to make a game based in Arcanum, but I don't want to get sue threats and have my whatever work I've done wasted for nothing.

To get sued, Sierra would first have to find the documentation that they legally own Arcanum. That, in and of itself, is probably more time/money than they want to designate upon such an endeavor. I would say that if you want to build a clone or a game based on Arcanum, go for it.

Please be warned, however. This community has seen a lot of projects like this come and go. Including a complete revamp of the game I had hashed out with another one of the admins of this place. There are, at present, two projects being worked on. One by RunAwayScientist. The other by... Zerobot? I think? Formerly Crypton. My point is, while many of us are avid fans of the game, few of us are modders. If you're going to dive into this, expecting lots of useful help, you're setting yourself up for a fantastic letdown. I don't say this because I want you to give up hope, I just want you to know in advance.

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I have a physical cardboard package! :3
My dear Swasian, please leave your sex toys out of our conversations, unless you're including pictures, mmkay? <3

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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: 
 
Technological Marvel
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ZippoLag, building a 3D engine is a really really really bad idea (done it before), great learning experience but very little to be gained in terms of practicallity. There's so much design involved that you spend virtually no time on the game itself. Not good.

Pen & paper could be interesting though, if you want to try it over IRC send me the rules and I'll knock up a bot fot that purpose.

Dark Fool, I'm slightly insulted that you forgot my own Arcanum project (which is still being worked on, I swear!). I was nearly ready to share the secrets of my porn multiverse with you but now I guess you have to wait...


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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: 
 
Water Merchant
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DarkFool wrote:
There are, at present, two projects being worked on.


Yep, there are, but at least five ;)

-Arcanum: Revolution -> WEBSITE, WIKI, SUBFORUM.
-Arcanum: SoulLess (3D) -> SUBFORUM.
-ArcReborn: RiverRise -> SUBFORUM
-Arcanum: Dead World -> WEBSITE.
-ArcanumAlive -> WEBSITE

These are the only hopefully looking projects I'm aware of, and I believe that there is at least 5 more that I'm not aware of.

Also, Charonte is working on something, but he don't have website nor name for that project yet, so his project isn't in the list.

P.S. Maybe it would be a good idea to make a list of such projects, and make a sticky thread from it. :thumbup:

Edit: The project Arcanum: Revolution has changed domain to http://arcanumrevolution.ru/

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Last edited by Crypton on Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: 
 
Apprentice
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Charonte wrote:
ZippoLag, building a 3D engine is a really really really bad idea (done it before), great learning experience but very little to be gained in terms of practicallity. There's so much design involved that you spend virtually no time on the game itself. Not good.

Pen & paper could be interesting though, if you want to try it over IRC send me the rules and I'll knock up a bot fot that purpose.


I know, I know.. But the thing is I have many ideas for games, too many perhaps, and if I were to grab an already existing engine and mod it for my purposes, I.. I don't know where I was going with that, the thing really is, I just want to make an engine, from scratch, all for the sake of experience and actually making something that might just expand out of proportions, and will hopefully run decently, of course. Then, when I'm retired and nobody plays this kind of games anymore, I'll grab my notebooks and start making games that run on my engine =P

And the pen&paper is currently on hold for the holydays -and completion of other games being played '^^-, but I'll gladly share what I have, when I have something to share.

ZeroBot wrote:
P.S. Maybe it would be a good idea to make a list of such projects, and make a sticky thread from it. :thumbup:
:thumbup:

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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: 
 
Water Merchant
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Charonte wrote:
ZippoLag, building a 3D engine is a really really really bad idea ...



Yup. Pretty much. Took the gaming industry years to screw around with gaming engines to get to the point they are at now. I'd recommend buying an indie engine and modding it up to your specs, as an alternative. But uhhh, if you want the experience, as you stated, then go for it I suppose. But what Charonte said is pretty much accurate. It's no easy journey.

Props to you if you keep at it, however.


Dark Fool wrote:
To get sued, Sierra would first have to find the documentation that they legally own Arcanum. ..... I would say that if you want to build a clone or a game based on Arcanum, go for it.


Agreed. Don't let legal reciprocation strangle your dreams.


Maybe if we offer our services to find the paperwork instead....we could....'accidentally' misplace it again in a more permanent location?




Yuki wrote:
I have a physical cardboard package! :3


Intellectual discourse of the highest caliber. Clearly.



Charonte wrote:
Sierra is now a division of Activision Blizzard


Zanza wrote:
Blizzard say they are working on a new game ...


World of Arcanum: Voidaclism


Wayne-Scales wrote:
Offhand, I'd say the most notable change would be user-friendliness. Arcanum is a bitch to mod.


Amen to that. I hope Charonte/Crypton are taking this into account. Especially translating mods from Arcanum 1 to their new engines.


ZippoLag wrote:
I'm drawing the baselines for a pen&paper RPG


But we already have a superior medium...why go backwards when you can spend your efforts on working out things for the computer game version? Granted, Pen and Paper have their appeal in their own way....but in your particular case, perhaps you should spend the effort working out more concrete plans for your PC version?


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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: 
 
Unfinisher Extraordinaire
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Wow, a seven individual quote breakout/reply post. Could be a record. I didn't even read it.

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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:23 pm Post subject: 
 
Technological Marvel
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ZippoLag wrote:
Charonte wrote:
ZippoLag, building a 3D engine is a really really really bad idea (done it before), great learning experience but very little to be gained in terms of practicallity. There's so much design involved that you spend virtually no time on the game itself. Not good.

Pen & paper could be interesting though, if you want to try it over IRC send me the rules and I'll knock up a bot fot that purpose.


I know, I know.. But the thing is I have many ideas for games, too many perhaps, and if I were to grab an already existing engine and mod it for my purposes, I.. I don't know where I was going with that, the thing really is, I just want to make an engine, from scratch, all for the sake of experience and actually making something that might just expand out of proportions, and will hopefully run decently, of course. Then, when I'm retired and nobody plays this kind of games anymore, I'll grab my notebooks and start making games that run on my engine =P

And the pen&paper is currently on hold for the holydays -and completion of other games being played '^^-, but I'll gladly share what I have, when I have something to share.

ZeroBot wrote:
P.S. Maybe it would be a good idea to make a list of such projects, and make a sticky thread from it. :thumbup:
:thumbup:


Honestly, if you want my advice start off developing a 2D/isometric engine instead. They're more than complex enough for a single developer and the vast majority of the math applies to 3D too.

Read an article not too long ago about why you should make games, and not engines. Basically if you make *just* an engine you will spend forever adding useless features that have no practical use, trying perfect something that in the real world functions fine.

So, if you want to make an engine build a game and make an engine to fit. Doesn't have to be much, just a simple concept, so long as it's not so abstract that you can't actually focus on the game and end up just making a crap engine with an example.

After you've done one game, come up with a new concept and adapt your engine to fit that. You'll end up with something that fits a broader application and yet you're still learning something about game development too. It's never something I've been able to do but it's still the best route, I think.

As for considering modding in my own project (think this has been bought up before), yep, it should be relatively simple. You will need to have a basic knowledge of scripting (lua) and initially you will need to create maps by hand (I will provide a template lua script to facilitate this however), but apart from that it should be a cakewalk. Everything is/will be documented so nothing should be overly obscure.


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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: 
 
Mutant Patron of Deviation
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Philes wrote:
Wow, a seven individual quote breakout/reply post. Could be a record.

Nah, not even close to my seventeen.

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