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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:30 am Post subject:  Muro's Arcanum Weapon Database version 1.0.4
 
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Good heavens, is Christmas early this year or what?

Fragment of the database's readme part wrote:
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
    I. What is this thing and what is it for?
    II. Game version
    III. How do I use it?
    IV. Miscellaneous
    V. What properties of weapons were omitted and why?
    VI. Abbreviations
    VII. Ammo types
    VIII. Semi-available weapons
    IX. Unarmed weapons
    X. Shocking Staff
    XI. Throwing Dagger
    XII. Harrow
    XIII. Sword of the Derian Ka
    XIV. Weapons with magickally adjusted speed
    XV. Weapons with magickally adjusted MSR
    XVI. Database changelog
    XVII. Thanks
    XVIII. A few last words
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I. What is this thing and what is it for?
    The DATABASE sheet of this here Excel file is a database containing data about all weapons that one can find in Arcanum. If you want to choose the most effective weapon(s) for your character and/or any of his followers or simply want to find out what's the weakest/strongest/fastest/most magickal/most whatever-else-interests-you weapon in the game, the database should prove useful for you.

    The README sheet, on the other hand, contains all of the info needed to effectively understand and use the database plus some other useful knowledge about Arcanum's weapons.
II. Game version
    The database has been created for Arcanum version 1.0.7.4 with Unofficial Arcanum Patch v091225.
    (...)
    I'm considering creating an additional database for Arcanum 1.0.7.4 + A:WIP 6.0 (or whatever will be the latest version at the time) some time in the future.

227 weapons total in 239 entries.

The user fills in the following information about the character for which the weapon data will be calculated:
  • Strength
  • Magick/Tech Aptitude
  • Melee Training
  • Throwing Training
  • Firearms Training
  • Bow Training
The database, in return, provides the following data about every weapon:
  • Name
  • Type
  • Magick/Tech/Hexed/Neutral
  • Magick/Tech Complexity
  • Magickal Power Available
  • Minimal Strength Required: one-handed (shield/device in another hand)
  • Minimal Strength Required: two-handed (no shield/device in another hand)
  • Speed
  • Action Points per Attack
  • Minimal Damage
  • Maximal Damage
  • Average Damage per Action Point
  • Ammo Units per Attack
  • Average Damage per Ammo Unit
The data can then be sorted in any way the user wishes.

Much more information can be found in the database's readme part.

~ DOWNLOAD LINK ~

Do enjoy yourselves.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Changes in version 1.0.1:

- Corrected the damage calculating formulas of the Sword of the Derian Ka.
- Added the Sword of the Derian Ka section to the README part.

Changes in version 1.0.2:

- Corrected the damage calculating formulas of the Fine Revolver.

Changes in version 1.0.3:

- Fixed a loophole in minimum and maximum damage calculating formulas which erroneously elevated the damage of the Axe of Lost Time and Grack's Burdensome Staff for characters combining low strength and high magickal aptitude.

Changes in version 1.0.4:

- Added the Bow of Damage to the DATABASE part.

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Last edited by Muro on Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:47 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:20 am Post subject: 
 
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Superb! Excellent work Mr. Muro!

Reading over it now. It's very extensive. A quality piece, no doubt, given your modus operandi.


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 PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:36 am Post subject: 
 
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This is excellent! Thank you for your hard work.

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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: 
 
Master
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I really love to come to arcanum forum to see people are still interested in the deep details of game, now reading through the guide. thanks alot for your hardwork Muro

PS: I am really looking forward to a version of this with Fatigue Damage values included in the future, and about data collection if there is anything we can anyhow be helpful I would love to do my best


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:17 pm Post subject: 
 
Water Merchant
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I never realize the extensive weapon selection available in the game. Always learning something new about this game, even 10 years later. Does not cease to boggle the mind sometimes.


As I suspected, a quality piece Mr. Muro. The layout is extremely well done, I especially was impressed with the skill selections at the top and how you automatically modified weapon damage based on skill level and programmed those stats in Excel. Some expert Excel skills right there.


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: 
 
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Looks really good! I wish that I wasn't such a lazy jerk, so I could actually read it and give a better feedback.

Also, a small suggestion, not all people have MS Excel/OpenOffice installed, so it might be a good idea to export it into html page or tell dummies to download the Excel Viewer. Just saying... :P

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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:11 am Post subject: 
 
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What can I say, such a positive reception is always a nice thing to experience.

symban wrote:
I am really looking forward to a version of this with Fatigue Damage values included in the future

Fatigue damage? As in, people actually pay attention to that parameter while choosing weapons?

Crypton wrote:
not all people have MS Excel/OpenOffice installed, so it might be a good idea to export it into html page...

That would be the most handy version of the database, indeed. Had I the HTML skill required for such an endeavour, I would be more than happy to create such a thing and host it on TA, but alas, I do not.

Crypton wrote:
...or tell dummies to download the Excel Viewer.

I checked that Excel Viewer thingy. It allows to view xls files but not to modify their content, which means one cannot change the values of Strength, Aptitude nor training levels in it, nor is it possible for him to sort the data in any way with that program.

Needless to say, while the database still provides a lot of useful info in that state, its main purpose (being a tool for ranking the damage-dealing efficiency of weapons for any desired character) is impossible to be achieved because of this.

OpenOffice's Calc is almost fine. Almost, because - as mentioned in the readme - it doesn't seem to be able to sort descendingly/ascendingly, which means it lacks an option which is very helpful in arranging the data.

The way it is, Microsoft Excel seems to be the only program with which the database is fully compatible, or at least the only one I'm aware of at the moment. I'm guessing most Arcanum players have Excel on their hard drives anyway (not necessarily a legal copy, but still), so this shouldn't be that much of a problem.

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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: 
 
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Muro wrote:
That would be the most handy version of the database, indeed. Had I the HTML skill required for such an endeavour, I would be more than happy to create such a thing and host it on TA, but alas, I do not.


You don't need to know html, it's possible to export it directly from Excel as html page. File->Save As->Select HTML from bottom combo box.

Should be working, if not, making html page from it won't be hard, its simple form. Maybe the javascript you'll need to recalculate stats might be harder to code, but nothing impossible.

Try to export it, and if it won't work, tell me and I'll try to force myself to help you making that web version :)

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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: 
 
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Muro, it's awesome. It's as good as anyone could ask for.

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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: 
 
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I can add nothing but more applause. Well done, sir.


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: 
 
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Muro wrote:
What can I say, such a positive reception is always a nice thing to experience.

symban wrote:
I am really looking forward to a version of this with Fatigue Damage values included in the future

Fatigue damage? As in, people actually pay attention to that parameter while choosing weapons?


actually I only value weapons by how LESS damage they deal, how MUCH fatigue they hurt per AP for my FOLLOWERs.

therefore certain weapons shine above others like gems even though they may be considered useless normally.

-virgil is equipped in either dread armor, or magical robes with a mystical staff (the one with 60 mana and +18 fatigue damage)
-tech melees with quaility maces or gauntlets + barehand
-tech range tranqulizer guns

I have tesla rods for tech ranges/shocking staff or pyro axes or balanced swords for tech melees/magical high damage weapons for virgil in their inventories. also have dog. but dog is always in "back off" unless I need them desperately.

as to why; my chars generally lack dex/str at all (I fancy firearms / throwing / items that has effects such as; flash/smoke/stun grenades, traps, poisons, disarm spell, dominate will etc) I dont go for harm spell for example in my mage chars at all.

I love when combat takes a while (which does not happen if you have harm or high str+melee/throwing or followers in heavy weapons or simply dog around). but this brings survival problems. when coupled with my GREAT speed (dex 9 with 2 charged rings even at maxed lvls, I love jayna for her crafts when I need some more dex) I desperately need some other effects that will slow down the combat. followers knocking out one/two opponents is great for that. then I say "back off" and handle things. I even love plastics + detonator (I play in turn based, not fast-turn based). So yes, I value fatigue damage alot, especially when coupled with low damage :-)


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 PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: 
 
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An interesting way of approaching things, symban. I might consider adding fatigue damage to future versions of the database after all.

Crypton wrote:
File->Save As->Select HTML from bottom combo box.

The result is similar to an xls file viewed with the Excel Viewer - an htm file with a content that cannot be modified, therefore one can neither change the values in the six white cells nor sort the data. Any idea how to deal with this problem?

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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:20 am Post subject: 
 
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Muro wrote:

OpenOffice's Calc is almost fine. Almost, because - as mentioned in the readme - it doesn't seem to be able to sort descendingly/ascendingly, which means it lacks an option which is very helpful in arranging the data.

The way it is, Microsoft Excel seems to be the only program with which the database is fully compatible, or at least the only one I'm aware of at the moment. I'm guessing most Arcanum players have Excel on their hard drives anyway (not necessarily a legal copy, but still), so this shouldn't be that much of a problem.


I used Google Docs (Create New -> Open -> Upload -> View) to view the file, it does everything Excel does. I did have to slide/stretch the C column over a bit because it defaulted column sized on the Readme for some reason. You just need a G-Mail account to use it.

The README AND the database were EXTREMELY informative for me because I didn't even know about any of the unique bugs/properties pertaining to certain weapons (throwing dagger, or shocking staff) I really appreciate all the hard work.

If possible could you add another segment to each item; Drop Type. I am curious if it is a Quest Reward, Boss Drop, Mob Drop, Purchased via shop, or perhaps craftable. I am some what ignorant on that topic. Overall I am extremely pleased with this, as well as relieved to find I am not the only one still playing this classic work of art.

~Dzarc


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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: 
 
Resurrected Modding God

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Muro should start his own Arcanum wiki. *wink wink*

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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:40 pm Post subject: 
 
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Well, I do seem to enjoy gathering and sharing information so one day, who knows.

Dzarc wrote:
Google Docs

I checked it and the result was not the most satisfying one.

The database was laggy, it insisted on adding some empty lines at the beginning while not showing some of the last ones (probably its greatest sin, making it impossible to read some of the data), that which was supposed to be hidden wasn't and that which wasn't - was. It was possible to edit the six white cells and after one figured out how to sort the data he could do so ascendingly/descendingly, but not by leaving only cells with/without specific data in them.

All in all, it has most of Excel's possibilities but not all of them. Furthermore, the layout is distorted and while it is possible to use the database, doing so with Excel is significantly less tiresome and more user-friendly.

Dzarc wrote:
If possible could you add another segment to each item; Drop Type.

It's not something I would want to add to the database, really. It definitely wouldn't do the database's clarity any good.

Still, I can fully understand how that sort of data could be useful to some so here is the thing you wanted in a separate file.

Note that it was a quick work and most weapons only have the most typical and/or important location types mentioned (for it would be hardly worth mentioning that ten different NPCs have a specific weapon when it is easily found in your nearest general store).

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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: 
 
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Having been lurking for a while, I never felt any real reason to sign up, or to post anything. Having just discovered this however, I feel inclined to.

Thanks a tonne for the effort this must have taken Muro, your work helps metagamers everywhere.

::salute::

( Edit: Both a crap sentence flow and a grammatical error in my first post? I'm on a good start. )


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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:03 am Post subject: 
 
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Registering specially to thank me? Truly makes one smile during a hard day.

Thanks, Stasgard, always pleased to be of service. Glad you find the database useful.

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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:28 am Post subject: 
 
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Truly makes one smile during a hard day.


Here are a few more just in case -

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: 
 
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~ CONTINUED FROM HERE ~

rroyo wrote:
The bad news is I used the protos from Car-Arcanum as the initial foundation for my hack, and Chris has tweaked most of the weapons.

I see. I think I'll try to contact Chris Beddoes, then. Not counting on much, but there's no harm in trying.

chrisarcanum@yahoo.com (the email address he shared in the Polished Car Arcanum readme) doesn't sound like something that is still being checked by a fellow who hasn't been heard of in the Arcanum community for about six years now, though. Anyone recalls any other means of contacting the fair chap?

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: 
 
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Chris Beddoes was a fairly active poster on the RPG Codex forums back in the day, the laughing stock of the place, actually. His broken English and naivety provided an endless source of amusement. IIRC, he was from Greece.

Anyway, he disappeared from the face of the internet a long time ago, so I doubt you'll be able to contact him and take an interview about his "masterpiece" of a mod.

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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject: 
 
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Excellent work Muro!

Have you any more motivation left to still work on the database a bit?

How about a column with plain old average damage, not per AP? It's not hard to see the ballpark when just looking at the stats now, but having the exact numbers visible could be nice. When comparing different weapons on hand this could be an extra criterion. A character with a certain amount of AP could have an equal number of attacks with weapons of different speed, for example 11 AP with attack costs 4&5. Also I think higher damage weapons give more xp, allowing bigger overkill on weaker monsters even if they die in one hit.

Come to think of it, I guess it could be possible to calculate damage/turn if the character's speed were an extra variable in the database. Character speed per attack AP cost, rounded up, times average damage for the weapon.


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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: 
 
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a funny guy wrote:
Also I think higher damage weapons give more xp, allowing bigger overkill on weaker monsters even if they die in one hit.

They don't. You always get exactly the same amount of XP for killing a critter, no matter how many hits did it take you, just as long as all the hits were yours.

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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: 
 
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E,sad wrote:
How about a column with plain old average damage, not per AP?

Adding new columns always means diluting the database and therefore lowering its clarity. After all, everyone prefers small legible tables to lengthy confluent ones - not only is it easier on the eyes, it is simpler to track the particular data the user is interested in at the moment.

Any added data would really have to be justified by its value for such a dilution to take place and I don't think that can be said about AvD/attack. As you said, it would only be useful in some specific cases, and in those it can be easily deduced by just looking at the min damage and max damage.

There is another problem with adding any new columns. At the moment, the already existing ones take pretty much the whole width of a screen (1074x768 resolution). Adding any additional columns would require scrolling back and forth to read the data and check with which weapons is it even connected = missing the point of a user friendly database.

Replacing already existing columns with new ones would be a better move transparency-wise, but - just like with dilution - that would require the new info to really be worth it.

E,sad wrote:
Come to think of it, I guess it could be possible to calculate damage/turn if the character's speed were an extra variable in the database.

The usability of AvD/turn would at best be about the same as that of the already present AvD/AP.

AvD/AP may not be the a perfect determinant of weapon damaging value when (AP/turn)/(AP/attack) is not an integer, but neither would be AvD/turn when we remember that there is hardly a turn when we don't do anything else (cast spells, use items, move) but attack.

No point in having two coefficients organising the weapons +/- in the same order, especially when we keep the dilution and width problems in our minds.

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 PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject: 
 
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Guess I should mention this was a tremendous help in balancing many real-time weapons for the coop translation.
Without it, I probably wouldn't have bothered balancing things properly at all.

Keep up the good work!

More hidden columns with information like proto ID and item worth would have been nice though.
I'm running in 1920x1080 so horizontal viewspace was not a problem, but I should have really dug out a 2nd screen while working on balance, was a real pain alt-tabbing for everything!


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 PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:08 am Post subject: 
 
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Excellent tool. It has only two drawbacks: First, in Openoffice I cannot sort by column. Your dropdown boxes work great, not to be confused with the Sort option. It's just that the sheet continues to be sorted by weapon name in alphabetic order. If I choose "sort" from the Openoffice "Data" menu, all 3 sort tiers show only "Column B" as an option. Coincidentally, that is the weapon name column. So it seems locked into sorting by column B. Maybe I am not unlocking the sheet properly, or something along those lines? Or is this intended?

The other drawback is that, from a powergaming perspective, my character's build is pointless. Who knew the Mechanized Gun was the best Firearm in the game?


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