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Muro's Arcanum Weapon Database version 1.0.4

Discussion in 'Arcanum Discussion' started by Muro, Dec 13, 2010.

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  1. Eat shit and die

    Eat shit and die New Member

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    Excellent work Muro!

    Have you any more motivation left to still work on the database a bit?

    How about a column with plain old average damage, not per AP? It's not hard to see the ballpark when just looking at the stats now, but having the exact numbers visible could be nice. When comparing different weapons on hand this could be an extra criterion. A character with a certain amount of AP could have an equal number of attacks with weapons of different speed, for example 11 AP with attack costs 4&5. Also I think higher damage weapons give more xp, allowing bigger overkill on weaker monsters even if they die in one hit.

    Come to think of it, I guess it could be possible to calculate damage/turn if the character's speed were an extra variable in the database. Character speed per attack AP cost, rounded up, times average damage for the weapon.
     
  2. Drog Alt

    Drog Alt New Member

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    They don't. You always get exactly the same amount of XP for killing a critter, no matter how many hits did it take you, just as long as all the hits were yours.
     
  3. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Adding new columns always means diluting the database and therefore lowering its clarity. After all, everyone prefers small legible tables to lengthy confluent ones - not only is it easier on the eyes, it is simpler to track the particular data the user is interested in at the moment.

    Any added data would really have to be justified by its value for such a dilution to take place and I don't think that can be said about AvD/attack. As you said, it would only be useful in some specific cases, and in those it can be easily deduced by just looking at the min damage and max damage.

    There is another problem with adding any new columns. At the moment, the already existing ones take pretty much the whole width of a screen (1074x768 resolution). Adding any additional columns would require scrolling back and forth to read the data and check with which weapons is it even connected = missing the point of a user friendly database.

    Replacing already existing columns with new ones would be a better move transparency-wise, but - just like with dilution - that would require the new info to really be worth it.

    The usability of AvD/turn would at best be about the same as that of the already present AvD/AP.

    AvD/AP may not be the a perfect determinant of weapon damaging value when (AP/turn)/(AP/attack) is not an integer, but neither would be AvD/turn when we remember that there is hardly a turn when we don't do anything else (cast spells, use items, move) but attack.

    No point in having two coefficients organising the weapons +/- in the same order, especially when we keep the dilution and width problems in our minds.
     
  4. Magitek

    Magitek New Member

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    Guess I should mention this was a tremendous help in balancing many real-time weapons for the coop translation.
    Without it, I probably wouldn't have bothered balancing things properly at all.

    Keep up the good work!

    More hidden columns with information like proto ID and item worth would have been nice though.
    I'm running in 1920x1080 so horizontal viewspace was not a problem, but I should have really dug out a 2nd screen while working on balance, was a real pain alt-tabbing for everything!
     
  5. hal900x

    hal900x New Member

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    Excellent tool. It has only two drawbacks: First, in Openoffice I cannot sort by column. Your dropdown boxes work great, not to be confused with the Sort option. It's just that the sheet continues to be sorted by weapon name in alphabetic order. If I choose "sort" from the Openoffice "Data" menu, all 3 sort tiers show only "Column B" as an option. Coincidentally, that is the weapon name column. So it seems locked into sorting by column B. Maybe I am not unlocking the sheet properly, or something along those lines? Or is this intended?

    The other drawback is that, from a powergaming perspective, my character's build is pointless. Who knew the Mechanized Gun was the best Firearm in the game?
     
  6. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    All suggestions are always welcome (except for retarded ones, naturally), though at the moment the Database is a project designed for players wanting to check which weapons will be most efficient damage dealing-wise for their characters and followers, and they have no use of proto ID. As for weapon worth, in a game where money is hardly ever an issue it would mostly be an useless filler anyway.

    Hardly my fault OpenOffice's Calc cannot sort properly, I'd say.

    The Database was created on Microsoft Excel and that program seems to be the only one which handles it flawlessly.

    The point is moot. Most actually agree that the massive AvD/AP does not compensate for the pathetic AvD/AmU.
     
  7. Sjael

    Sjael New Member

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    Quite impressive work there. A+++, would read again, etc.

    It's tempting to secretly build a PHP/MySQL version of this so I can deviously steal a glimmer of your glory.

    *whistles*
     
  8. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the Sword of the Derian Ka has a substantial hidden bonus to damage, making this already decent weapon a significantly better one than its description suggests. Added a "Sword of the Derian Ka" section to the README part and included the bonus in the sword's damage calculating formulas in the DATABASE part.

    Updated table of contents and download link in the original post.
     
  9. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Noticed an error in the damage calculating formulas of the Fine Revolver.

    The problem is now solved, the database updated and reuploaded. Download link can be found in the original post.
     
  10. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Noticed a loophole in minimum and maximum damage calculating formulas which erroneously elevated the damage of the Axe of Lost Time and Grack's Burdensome Staff for characters combining low strength and high magickal aptitude.

    Seriously, how specific can an error get?

    The problem is now solved, the database updated and reuploaded. Download link can be found in the original post.
     
  11. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Found a weapon I seem to have overlooked when creating the database.

    The Bow of Damage has now been added to the DATABASE part.

    The database is updated and reuploaded. Download link can be found in the original post.
     
  12. Question

    Question New Member

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    Im looking at the excel file but some of the numbers seem off...the shotgun doesnt have 30-60 damage ingame....neither does the hand crafted fintlock have an awe inspiring 7-29 damage ingame....
     
  13. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    The Shotgun does 1-10 damage while the Hand Crafted Flintlock deals 2-6, and those are the numbers I placed in the database. 30-60 is the damage of the Blade Launcher while 7-29 of Bronwyck's Gun.

    Most odd. I have never encountered any mismatches. No matter in what way I sort my data, the database always displays the correct values for me, and I regularly sort in in a variety of ways.

    Jojobobo, Question, what programs do you use to open the database?

    Also, sorting the database in what way causes it to display incorrect values in your cases?
     
  14. Jojobobo

    Jojobobo Well-Known Member

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    Just the 2010 version of excel, I don't know maybe it's something wrong with my system than the file itself. It's never bothered me just looking down the list anyway, everything else works correctly like the values adjusting for strength, etc.
     
  15. TheDavisChanger

    TheDavisChanger Well-Known Member

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    Excel does not always sort cells the way I anticipate, especially if I highlight specific cells to be sorted. If you select-all and sort, do you still have the problem?
     
  16. rychek

    rychek New Member

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  17. Harlequin Fetus

    Harlequin Fetus New Member

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    Great database, are you still considering creating one for arcanum : wip or have you abandoned the idea?
     
  18. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    Re:

    The idea is pretty much abandoned for reasons various, indeed. Thanks for bumping the thread, though. It reminded me of the database and inspired me to experiment with a known problem it was having. That being said...

    ...in other news, after some trial and error I recently* figured out what was the problem behind sorting errors mentioned by a few members, what, 1,5 years ago? Time flows like crazy, I tell ya.
    Fact: the database was created on Microsoft Excel 2003. Now, it turns out Microsoft Excel ≥ 2007 sorts data differently that earlier versions, to the point that something that worked in Excel 2003 may not work properly in Excel ≥ 2007, regardless of compatibility options.** I introduced some changes to the sorting method and now the database appears to work correctly on my Excel 2007, but I'll take my time to thoroughly test it before releasing it. Still, expect an update soon.

    * Half an hour ago.

    ** Which I find baffling, to say the least. What if rather than a non-profit pet project it was an important spreadsheet that my company's money depended on? One would think he doesn't have to worry about such compatibility problems when upgrading software from a leading multinational software corporation.
     
  19. Philes

    Philes Well-Known Member

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    I was expecting a third asterisk set after that last "soon" and when it wasn't there I was sad.
     
  20. Muro

    Muro Well-Known Member

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    I'd hate to make you sad, Philes. I attempted to add a third asterisk set, but instead I ended up with this.

    Don't ask me, ask yourself.
     

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