Arcanum ownership

Discussion in 'Arcanum 2 Suggestion Forum' started by The Pigeon, Nov 7, 2010.

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  1. ZippoLag

    ZippoLag New Member

    I know, I know.. But the thing is I have many ideas for games, too many perhaps, and if I were to grab an already existing engine and mod it for my purposes, I.. I don't know where I was going with that, the thing really is, I just want to make an engine, from scratch, all for the sake of experience and actually making something that might just expand out of proportions, and will hopefully run decently, of course. Then, when I'm retired and nobody plays this kind of games anymore, I'll grab my notebooks and start making games that run on my engine =P

    And the pen&paper is currently on hold for the holydays -and completion of other games being played '^^-, but I'll gladly share what I have, when I have something to share.

  2. RunAwayScientist

    RunAwayScientist New Member

    Yup. Pretty much. Took the gaming industry years to screw around with gaming engines to get to the point they are at now. I'd recommend buying an indie engine and modding it up to your specs, as an alternative. But uhhh, if you want the experience, as you stated, then go for it I suppose. But what Charonte said is pretty much accurate. It's no easy journey.

    Props to you if you keep at it, however.

    Agreed. Don't let legal reciprocation strangle your dreams.

    Maybe if we offer our services to find the paperwork instead....we could....'accidentally' misplace it again in a more permanent location?

    Intellectual discourse of the highest caliber. Clearly.

    World of Arcanum: Voidaclism

    Amen to that. I hope Charonte/Crypton are taking this into account. Especially translating mods from Arcanum 1 to their new engines.

    But we already have a superior medium...why go backwards when you can spend your efforts on working out things for the computer game version? Granted, Pen and Paper have their appeal in their own way....but in your particular case, perhaps you should spend the effort working out more concrete plans for your PC version?
  3. Philes

    Philes New Member

    Wow, a seven individual quote breakout/reply post. Could be a record. I didn't even read it.
  4. Charonte

    Charonte Member

    Honestly, if you want my advice start off developing a 2D/isometric engine instead. They're more than complex enough for a single developer and the vast majority of the math applies to 3D too.

    Read an article not too long ago about why you should make games, and not engines. Basically if you make *just* an engine you will spend forever adding useless features that have no practical use, trying perfect something that in the real world functions fine.

    So, if you want to make an engine build a game and make an engine to fit. Doesn't have to be much, just a simple concept, so long as it's not so abstract that you can't actually focus on the game and end up just making a crap engine with an example.

    After you've done one game, come up with a new concept and adapt your engine to fit that. You'll end up with something that fits a broader application and yet you're still learning something about game development too. It's never something I've been able to do but it's still the best route, I think.

    As for considering modding in my own project (think this has been bought up before), yep, it should be relatively simple. You will need to have a basic knowledge of scripting (lua) and initially you will need to create maps by hand (I will provide a template lua script to facilitate this however), but apart from that it should be a cakewalk. Everything is/will be documented so nothing should be overly obscure.
  5. Muro

    Muro New Member

    Nah, not even close to my seventeen.
  6. RunAwayScientist

    RunAwayScientist New Member

    Seven is hardly a record for many a forum. Although, I suppose I can endeavor to do better. I suppose if I were to engage Muro in an elongated debate...why...I might even reach twenty.
  7. ZippoLag

    ZippoLag New Member

    Yup, the popular opinion is that making an engine would take just too much time, but just how much is "too much" depends on one's priorities ;)
    There are some things I want to try out and the only way to learn those things will be to really do this, or so I feel.

    I dare say, computer based role playing is by no means superior to pen & paper. Sitting 'round a table with a bunch of friends -or strangers- and use your imagination to dwell in a fantasy world, regardless of texture resolutions and frame rates is a unique experience wich PC games fail to comprehend in most cases. And may I add, one of the things I intend to develop some day, is an MMORPG in wich the main activity, purpose, mean and goal of every quest isn't killing a bunch of creeps to gain experience and loot.

    Thanks, but no thanks, I've already dwelled into the dark paths of isometric engines and given the fact I hated the results I got and since most PCs still functioning today have enough proccessing power to smoothly run some sort of complete 3d engine I feel that attempting to make an isometric engine -or using one for making a game- would end up in me giving up what's left of my humanity for the sake of keeping my mind "sane". I'm probably going to use lua for scripting, though.
  8. RunAwayScientist

    RunAwayScientist New Member

    What?! A game that doesn't involve killing, murdering, and/or other things related to violence?! My God man....what have you done?! You'll revolutionize the industry!

    Sounds like a plan Zippo. I wish you the best of luck in such an endeavor.
  9. ZippoLag

    ZippoLag New Member

    I thank you indeed, I basically want to translate pen&paper role playing to computer role playing, it shall be a titanic task with less than very low chances of success, but hell, I want to try :)
  10. Crypton

    Crypton New Member

    ZippoLag: You seems to be experienced, so why have you decided to write a (another) brand new engine when you could use some already working one? Do you know a project EvilTemple? It's TOEE engine restoration project, and it has a very advanced engine already, it's also open-source, so you might use it as base for the new Arcanum engine. Don't do same mistake as we/I did. Make a game, not engine, before your enthusiasm fade away.

    Just giving a advice, it's your decision, but you might be the one who actually might be successful.

    Have a nice day.
  11. ZippoLag

    ZippoLag New Member

    Thanks, I appreciate all the advice, I rally do, so since I've stated a couple of times already that the major reason for me wanting to put myself though this seemingly painful experience: I love systems. I love them so much I'm studying information systems engineering, but it is a shame that the only systems we get a chance to develop in course are boring administrative ones, sure they put food on the table but are as boring, uninteresting and easy to make that they almost killed my passion for engineering. But thankfully things got interesting when I dwelled into the realms of OS design, and the algorithms and workarounds people had to make get computers to what they are today, and then I remembered, my long lost dream from my days of innocence: I wanted to make a living out of making games, and then I remembered all of my past failures, and the biggest reasons behind them: my own ignorance and the uglyness of the engines I had at hand to experiment with, a week later I had made an ASCII Pacman in C and my faith in the world was restored. So after some thinking I came to realize that, making a whole -or at least the functional barebones- of a 3D networking game engine would be a task that I would definately complete one day.

    And besides, yes, it may be pointless to re-invent the wheel, but I might just invent the gear in the process ;)
  12. DarkFool

    DarkFool New Member

    I thought I recalled your saying that it was cancelled or shelved indefinitely. My apologies.
  13. Frigo

    Frigo New Member

    You should really try to implement the game logic first, and only THEN think about adding any kind of 2D, isometric or 3D interface or other shining features. Collect ideas about the mechanics of the game you planned and try to realize them in code. Making a 2D interface and some kind of editor is easier once you have a solid, consistent system. Avoid 3D, it introduces a lot of problems and expenses, 2D and especially isometric is enough pain in the ass already. Have a game in mind (perhaps some adventure module from pen & paper?) to implement with your engine, try to adjust it accordingly.
    Any time you have some nice idea, do a reality check. You are a single developer with limited time and budget. Aim low, make something simple but robust, once you achieved that, try to build on it, improve it.
    Oh yes, and kiss your free time goodbye.
  14. ZippoLag

    ZippoLag New Member

    I've seen countless failed attempts at making all sorts of systems, each doomed by the same flaw: lack of planning. The concept that I've thought of -as long as I manage to implement it correctly- would be modularized enough that you could actually swap the graphic prossesing part of the engine and replace it for something completely different, as long as it supports the same programmatical interface. The first version of the "graphical engine" will probably end up being a text adventure madlib style, if th mechanics are working well enough, I think I'll skip right into a 3D graphic module. A Dwarf Fortress style engine is completely out of the cuestion -tho it could be "fun" to do-, in case you were wondering :p

    And, "spare time" you say? What is that? Do you eat it? '^^
    No, I've not had true free time in ages, I'm always poking my nose in something, either addicted to a game or messing with stuff, even on vacations, I've long forgotten the pleasure of being able to "do nothing".
  15. ytzk

    ytzk New Member

    It sounds like you're truly determined to take the plunge. Good luck! At the least, you'll certainly learn something.

    As for table-top games, when you have a good group and a good imagination, no computer game can compare. Of course, the shiny lights and colours of computer games are irresistable.
  16. RunAwayScientist

    RunAwayScientist New Member

    I'd say objective and thorough testing sessions. Based on my experience as a gamer/modder, free form development based on testing brings about some nice ideas and implementations. Basically, ongoing testing which yields new game play ideas/features. You do one thing, test it thoroughly, then think up something else you could add to it.

    Although...perhaps that's not the best idea when you're aiming low.
  17. NotDedYet

    NotDedYet New Member

    Last I recall was that Sierra was bought by Vivendi Universal. Unless they're a part of Activision. I recall briefly after Troika went under, they moved the original forum without all the pretty stylings and people hung out there until they decided to just close them. I wonder what happened to that one guy who was the goto guy on gunslinger characters. He was always such a card.

    Back on topic, any major corporate can use any form of intimidation on their intellectual rights even if it doesn't have legal precedence.

    Microsoft does it regularly even on defunct games they could care less about simply because they hate the idea anyone would be enjoying something they created without paying for it.

    Your best bet is to make it a spiritual successor to the game based loosely on it. Otherwise consistently worry about much hard work being put to waste via the big bad wolf and his horde of hungry lawyers.

    Not that you couldn't just salvage the code and retool it.
  18. ChaunceyK

    ChaunceyK New Member

    If you don't mind "da new guy's" opinion on avoiding legal issues, rename "Arcanum 2" (for lack of a better description) to "Munacra" (Arcanum spelled backwards) and have it take place on a different continent with new cities, new NPCs, etc. Don't use any names that were used by the IP owners.
  19. Frigo

    Frigo New Member

    I call my collected ideas and planned engine Obscura. Not that it will be ever finished (or even started).
  20. RunAwayScientist

    RunAwayScientist New Member

    Obscura: Of Skrowmaets & Kcigam Munacra

    Catchy, don'tcha think?

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